If you ever see this, just STOP

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Onty, Nov 21, 2021.

  1. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    This was posted on the old version of jouster, all these posts were dumped when the site got new software.

    According to the poster, Greek HXP cracked the receiver heel on his Garand

    s7M56fl.jpg

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    The bolt rebounds off the receiver heel, push that bolt too fast, and that is the end of your receiver.

    I used to collect high pressure accounts with factory ammunition, but got tired of doing so.


    HXP at Perry . . .
    http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=115939

    HXP 77 was the culprit. I won't shoot that stuff. A whole bunch of heavy bolt handle lifts in the 03 matches when it was issued at Perry. I have fired a lot of HXP 70, 72 & 73 with no issues at all, 03's and M1's.

    Tombguard, What Ceresco is implying is that while HXP 77 ammo exhibited frequent and sometimes severe issues (excessive bolt lift force, dismounted op rods, duds, hangfires, etc.) there is the concern that other lots will have the same issues but with perhaps lesser frequency. If a manufacturing process doesn't have robust QC practices, more issues are lurking out there like snakes in the grass. I am not saying that you should avoid HXP ammo - I'm just saying that one should be aware that systemically the issues might extend beyond HXP 77 ammo

    In the 2007 Perry matches it was '88 dated ammo that gave a lot of 03A3 fits on opening. I keep the saved round I had in rapids beside the silver medal I earned with 29 rounds. Believe me when I tell you it was locking those bolts up TIGHT. (As in roll out of position and beat them open.)


    Stiff Bolt Handle on SC 03a3

    http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=92269&highlight=high+pressure+greek

    Took my SC 03a3 to the range a week ago, shooting fairly good groups at 100yds (~2MOA) with unsorted HXP. Had a problem though - occasionally the bolt handle would be VERY difficult to lift open. Never had that before with new production ammo, other sessions with HXP, and never had a problem when dry-firing (snap caps, etc). Didn't break anything evident, and everything APPEARS to function correctly. The brass all looks like I expect (There is some minor pitting in the chamber which shows on the brass, but does not effect extraction), it just felt like I needed a hammer or a crow bar to lift the bolt handle sometimes (but not always). Any ideas as to what is going wrong


    Typical HXP problem. It will often be hard to chamber some rounds as well. I had 3 saved rounds in 2006 at the Western Games 1903 match when round 7 could not be extracted from the chamber and no one had a BFH handy. A wooden mallet later helped extract the round. That was in a pristine M1903 Remington with a perfect chamber. All other ammo I feed it functions perfectly. I have a 1903A3 that also has issues with HXP. About 10-20% of some lots are very long in the shoulder. I have a couple rounds that won't chamber in a 1903 at all. It almost looks like I put a No-Go gage in the chamber.


    If it is only when you shoot HXP new ammo that is your problem and your answer. It's a problem that has existed with a great many bolt guns since the very first day that CMP began selling HXP ammo and has been much discussed in this forum and others for several years (and see, even today). It was a common complaint among shooters for years at the regional CMP Games and the Nationals when CMP was issuing HXP as the required ammo to use. As I stated before, in 2006, if you walked the line in every relay of the 1903 match you would see shooters having to slap bolts closed and struggle to get bolts open. Many saved rounds in rapid fire were the result and the reason for the many complaints for several years.

    I doubt there is a single thing wrong with your rifle or anyone's rifle that is experiencing this problem with HXP in bolt guns. If other ammo feeds and extracts without problems you have the answer already. The long and short of it[​IMG].....no pun intended....is the ammo, not the rifle. HXP brass is some of the greatest re-loadable brass out there but, it often sucks the first time around through a bolt gun. Nature of the beast.


    I do have Greek HXP and the stuff is hot. And I don't think it was made that hot, don't have their specifications, have not chronographed the stuff, only shot it in bolt guns.

    Which lots are hot, is all random chance. The stuff goes bad when it wants to go bad.
     
  2. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Any idea how old the ammunition?
     
  3. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Hercules was bragging about a 25 year lifetime in 1936

    GD1NQq7.jpg

    Early in the last century the storage lifetime of smokeless powders was considered to be 20 years or less:

    Army Ordnance Magazine, June 1931, page 445 says:

    Smokeless powder constitutes one of the greatest hazards from a storage standpoint, due to the fact that it is subject to deterioration and at the best cannot be expected to have a life greater than about twenty years…….Master samples of all lots of smokeless powder are under constant observation in the laboratories at Picatinny Arsenal. Should any of these samples indicate rapid deterioration, notification is given at once, and steps are taken to use this deteriorating material within a very short period, if possible, or else withdraw it from service.”

    Picatinny in 1931 might have been a little gun shy. This is what happened to them in 1926, a very big, badda, boom!

    July 10, 1926: The Day Nature Blew up a Town in New Jersey

    At approximately 5:15 p.m. on July 10, 1926, lightning struck the U.S. Naval Powder Depot at Picatinny Arsenal, detonating 670,000 pounds of explosives in Storehouse No. 8. It set off a reaction of explosions — the largest being in Storehouse No. 9, which held 1.6 million pounds of dynamite. Everything within 3,000 feet of the site was demolished. Shock waves followed the explosion, uprooting trees, blowing out windows and twisting cars into heaps of metal. Shells landed as far away as Hibernia, Mount Hope and Rockaway. Over an approximate three-day period, several million pounds of explosives were detonated, 19 people were killed and the damage was estimated at more than $1.25 million. Congress approved the arsenal's rebuilding, spending nearly $3 million on rehabilitation in the mid-1930s and another $15 million by 1945. Today, Picatinny has more than 800 buildings, including 64 laboratories, situated on nearly 6,500 acres.
     
  4. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    I've seen one like that. Was a 7x57 that was fired in a 270. Check the bore size.
     
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  5. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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  6. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Interesting post! I left that forum once moderator Mike Irwin started chasing me around on a private vendetta. I won't put up with abuse by a hypocrite, and there are a lot of lilly pads to jump to.

    Ribbit!
     
  7. Jeremy2171

    Jeremy2171 Member

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    Or more likely the worn oprod spring allowed excessive battering and it cracked...(or was already cracked).

    It happens to US M1s that were still in the service. Prime example of why changing the springs is so important.
     
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  8. Onty

    Onty Member

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    Not the primer but case. I was shooting with a friend. He had 44 Magnum Ruger Flattop, I had 41 Magnum Ruger Bisley. At one moment, he said that case wouldn't go out when pushed with ejector rod. After removing cylinder, we used brass rod and small hammer (I always have them in a box) and pounded case out. Well, case was 41 Magnum. How it ended up in his ammo box, is a mystery. I suspect that when he was shooting my 41 Magnum Bisley, somehow he had taken one round, thinking that it was one of his 44 Magnums.
     
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