If you had final say on US firearm laws.....you would?

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Select fire weapons would only be made available to those who had not comitted a violent felony in the past fifteen years

After released, does a violent felon have the right to freedom of religion, speech, association, not to be unreasonably searched, the right to trial by jury, etc? Why is it that we have no problem recognizing their other rights but we won't recognize their right to RKBA?

When someone goes to prison, they do so to pay their debt to society, so if the debt is paid why should any restrictions be placed upon them? Seems to me that prison sentences should be longer, with more emphasis on rehabilitating the criminal and remaking them into a functional member of society as opposed to giving them an abbreviated sentence because you have to make room for dope smokers and throwing them into a socialistic/barbaric environment and expecting improvement by crossing your fingers.

There's also the problem that a lot of these career criminals come from families of low charachter, so how do you approach the cultural problem present in our country? How do we become a nation of people with higher charachter?
 
After released, does a violent felon have the right to freedom of religion, speech, association, not to be unreasonably searched, the right to trial by jury, etc? Why is it that we have no problem recognizing their other rights but we won't recognize their right to RKBA?

Well back in a time with more character, the vast majority of those armed robbers, rapists, child molestors, kidnappers, horse-jackers, and whatnot would've had their necks stretched until they were dead, hence my suggestion to modify the meaning of the Eighth Amendment while we're playing wish list. Maybe a return broad and quick executions would avoid the problem of "re-arming" violent felons?

You don't arm your own enemy if you have any sense and since the recidivism rate for these jackals of society is in the 60th percentile somewhere, it is perfectly reasonable to disarm felons, as even the old colonies did it and allow ones who've demonstrated the capacity to be trusted to rejoin later. If we want to get technical, I'd make the "no auto weapons" part of a post prison release supervision document. You want out? Agree to this.
 
Disarm the felons......

Felons are already armed if they desire law or no law.

What is the point of having gun laws? They only apply to the law abiding. (people who don't rob and murder anyway)

Most gun shop owners "normally" wouldn't sell to a gang banger or someone obviously whacked out.

But now if the NICS comes back they will sell a gun to anyone
gang colors, needle sticking out of the arm, dead baby for a hat etc... Because they are following the government's rules..

All these laws tend to eliminate the normal self regulation we humans used to apply to our words and actions.

But the point is.... with all the laws on the books already regarding felons not having guns, do these laws make one bit of difference?

Has there ever been a person bent on mayhem and criminality that has not been able to fulfill their desire because of a federal law or state law prohibiting their behavior or what kind of weapon they can purchase?

I don't want bad guys to have guns either but wishing won't make it so and neither will 20,000 gun laws.
 
Personally I think the whole reason we don't see lots of shootouts with select-fire weapons today is because they are so rare thanks to the 1934 law restricting them.

If they were easily accessible to the general public, they would soon be easily accessible to the criminal element through the usual criminal channels (theft and corrupt FFLs).

Ben Franklin said it is folly to trade freedom for temporary security. I believe history has shown that trading away easy access to select-fire weapons has provided meaningful security which is very long lasting. This is as opposed to most modern gun laws which at best reduce crime for a few years.
 
Ditto Tamara.

I'd repeal all laws covering POSESSION of anything with the exception of WMD. Call me a wuss, but I really don't want some of my neighbors keeping Ebola in the fridge.
 
I'm not a resident or citizen of the United States, but I'll have a go. I'm a scifi and space enthousiast, so some of the rules and regulations are for things that don't quite exist yet. This is my version, after some time to think the issue over and take some notes. Note that even though I talk about 'weapons' I'm mostly talking about firearms and things that go boom.

Commentary is certainly welcome.
  1. All current laws, rules and regulations regulating weapons and ammunition possession, sale or manufacture are hereby void. The exception is the second amendment to the constitution. Further, all current minimum sentences and fines are also declared void.
  2. Every citizen or legal permanent resident over the age of majority has the right to keep and bear arms, except if that right has been removed for insanity or a violent or sexual crime conviction and has not been restored. People with the right to keep and bear arms are further refered to as 'permitted citizens'. People without this right are further refered to as 'unpermitted citizens'. *16
  3. Permitted citizens may manufacture, possess or use in a legal fashion any weapons and ammunition of a type that can be or has been used by an infantry unit (of any type) and that is manportable whole or disassembled *1 and is not covered by sections 4 or 5.
  4. Manufacture, possession or use of nuclear, biological, chemical, nanotechnological or antimatter weapons without license is prohibited. The exceptions are:
    a) The possession of nuclear weapons on a US registered spacecraft more than 400 kilometers away from a planetary body with a diameter of over 600 kilometers.
    b) The use of nuclear weapons by a US registered spacecraft more than 1600 kilometers away from a planetary body with a diameter of over 600 kilometers. *2
    c) Nonlethal chemical weapons do not fall under this section. They fall under section 5.

    Licenses to manufacture, possess or use weapons covered in this section will be issued on a 'must show legitimate need' basis only. The granting or denial of issuance must be made known to the applicant within 366 calender days of filing the application. *3
  5. Manufacture or possession of ammunition or weapons with explosive, incendiary or nonlethal chemical warheads is prohibited without license. Manufacture or possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited without license.

    Licenses to manufacture or possess weapons covered in this section will be issued on a 'shall issue' basis. The granting or denial of issuance must be made known to the applicant within 21 working days of filing the application. *4
  6. Private property owners, or in the case of rented or leased property, renters or leaseholders ('proprietors') may prohibit weapons and ammunition on their property. In this case:
    a) They must clearly indicate this visually at every entrance. Violators must be offered an opportunity to leave or store weapons. *5
    b) They must provide individual, safe and secure storage facilities. *7
    c) They are legally liable for personal physical injuries that occur on their premises, if these could have been reduced or prevented had weapons been available.
    d) Proprietors may grant individual exemptions to weapons bans at their discretion.
    e) Nothing in this section prohibits the enclosed storage of weapons or ammunition in vehicles, even if weapons are prohibited on the property.
  7. Permitted citizens may carry open or concealed any legally owned weapon or ammunition in public anywhere, with the following exceptions:
    a) In a courtroom while court is in session, except by permission of the presiding judge.
    b) On an active military installation, except by permission of the commanding officer. Active members of the military are exempt from this section. *6
    c) In a police station, jail or prison, except by permission of the commanding officer.
    d) On an aircraft or spacecraft, except by permission of the commanding officer. Cockpit or bridge crewmembers are exempt from this section.
    Under these exceptions the stipulations from section 6 still apply.
  8. The use of force by people to stop violent crimes in progress and/or in the defence of the citizen's person, family or property (by 'intervenors') is permitted at any time. The following rules apply:
    a) Intervenors are immune from charges under sections 6 or 7. *8
    b) Intervenors are liable for damages for collateral damage occuring as a result of their actions. *9
    c) Nonpermitted intervenors are immune from weapons possessions charges if they immediately surrender any weapons and ammunition in their possession to law enforcement. *10
    d) Intervenors using weapons or ammunition covered in section 5 they are not licensed for are immune from weapons possessions charges if they immediately surrender any covered weapons and ammunition in their possession. *11
    e) Force used must be in proportion to the threat posed to the intervenor, victim, bystanders or property. Use of excessive force by the intervenor must be demonstrated in a court of law. *12
    f) Criminals, their estate or their survivors may not sue the intervenor for damages unless the use of excessive force by him against them can be demonstrated in a court of law.
  9. Federal, state and local law enforcement authorities will, upon request by a person, conduct a background check of that person for the purposes of weapons ownership. The authority will submit to the requesting person a written declaration containing the applicant's personal information, the summarized check results, the background check date and an individual reference number and key. The issuing authority will keep a file containing the applicant's personal information, date, full and summarized check results. Further, the following regulations apply:
    a) Background check files are kept by the issuing authority in a strong encrypted format, sorted by reference number and issuing date only and accessible only with the correct key. Keys are not retained or kept on record. The method of encryption and any algorithms used shall be available to anyone on request.
    b) Background check files are purged three months after check issuance.
    c) Background check results are accessible to anyone with the proper reference number and key combination. Full requests results can be requested by mail or in person only, personal information, result summaries and check dates can be requested over the phone. Giving an incorrect reference number and key combination is not a criminal act per se.
    d) Unless the requesting person is a fugitive from justice, failing a requested background check is not grounds for arrest.
    e) Not possessing a current background check declaration is not grounds for arrest, legal action or law enforcement action.
    f) Charges no greater than $50 may be levied for performing the check.
    g) A background check may take no more than 3 working days to complete.

    A Vendor may request that the buyer present a current check declaration as part of any transaction involving weapons or ammunition. The vendor may then use the reference number and key to verify the declaration's validity and currency. The vendor may keep a record only of the check date and the applicant's name. *13
  10. The owner and user of weapons or ammunition are legally liable for deaths, injuries or damage caused by their storage or use. *14 The following exemptions apply:
    a) The owner is exempt if he can prove the weapons or ammunition were taken by force from his person or stolen from a properly designed, built and locked secure storage facility prior to its use. *15
    b) The owner and user are exempt if the use can be shown to have been in accordance with section 8.

Footnotes and commentary (bold numerals) on the above:
  1. Yes, this does include some howitzers, recoilless rifles and kinetic-kill missiles. If you can tote it, you can have it (excepting sections 4&5)
  2. This is designed to cover devices like the Orion drive or other pulse-based reaction spacedrives. They're currently mostly theoretical but I don't want to stop R&D.
  3. For instance, I can see someone doing nanotechnological research (hopefully offworld!) buying a small nuclear weapon to destroy his lab if he has a grey goo accident.
  4. Yes, you can buy HE, HEAT, WP or puke gas rounds if you've been a good boy. Good boys and girls can also buy machine guns and light autocannon.
  5. I've heard things about Texas 30.06 signs. This is what I'm thinking of.
  6. The commanding officer could, for instance, hire a sharpshooter to control the local prairiedog (or rat) population.
  7. In other words, guarded lockable lockers, not a rack.
  8. Criminals don't respect gun free zones. Accidental heroes shouldn't be punished for not doing so either.
  9. Use the proper weapon for the task and either don't miss or don't fire.
  10. Yes, cons who get hold of a gun in the heat and stop a violent crime shouldn't be charged if they immediately forfeit the gun.
  11. And yes, you can use that unlicensed machine gun if you then forfeit it.
  12. This is poorly worded. Basically, you can shoot armed robbers but not shoplifters.
  13. Yes, the section is longwinded. The idea is a verifiable but essentially unfiled 'certificate of good conduct' a shopkeeper can ask for and verify.
  14. Yes, you are liable for damages caused by your improperly stored (but permitted) nukes or an ammunition explosion in your ammunition bunker.
  15. Keeping guns in a safe when not in use is a good idea.
  16. Yes, I'm not going into rights restoration here. It's too complex an issue. I'm all for restoration in cases of truly going straight and keeping your nose squeaky clean.
Cheers,
ErikM :evil:
 
Personally I think the whole reason we don't see lots of shootouts with select-fire weapons today is because they are so rare thanks to the 1934 law restricting them.

Ask yourself: How difficult would it be for me to convert a semi-automatic to select fire or fully automatic? Now, I don't want that topic to be discussed here, I just want you to run through that little mental exercise and contemplate the obstacles in that task to someone who is truely determined to complete it.

Do you really think that law prevents criminals from having a select fire or fully automatic weapon?

For Homer's sake, the military ditched full-auto on their standard infantry rifles because it wasn't practical. Spray and pray, which is what full-auto lends itself to, is not nearly as effective as aimed fire by well-trained troops. Clint Smith himself said that it "turns money into noise, so why is it such a valuable tool that criminals would become super-criminals if they only had it?

1 - The law is not effective at someone who is determined to disobey it.

2 - Having it makes them no more effective.

So what, exactly would said law accomplish, aside from letting soccer-moms feel good that those nasty select-fire rifles are apparently off the streets?
 
For Homer's sake, the military ditched full-auto on their standard infantry rifles because it wasn't practical. Spray and pray, which is what full-auto lends itself to, is not nearly as effective as aimed fire by well-trained troops.

And if you need proof of this statement, look at the North Hollywood shootout (recently reenacted on TV). The 2 BGs fired thousands of rounds and killed no one. Yet, one crazed woman armed with a bathtub managed to kill five children.

The reason full auto weapons aren't used more in crimes is the exact same reason the so-called "semi-automatic assault weapon" isn't used in many crimes, it is not the prefered weapon of choice by criminals. There are plenty illegal full autos on the streets and anyone that wants one can have it just as easily as they can buy crack cocaine. The fact that legal full-auto owners jump through hoops to get one doesn't have anything to do with criminal misuse of machineguns.
 
Full auto makes a great deal of sense, for FPF.

If you have a MG on a tripod, with swappable barrels, and a pallet load of ammo, you can do wonders at keeping the screaming hordes at bay.

But you can't do full auto in meaningful sense in an assault rifle. It's only 140 rounds to cookoff temps :fire: in an M16.
 
If you have a MG on a tripod, with swappable barrels, and a pallet load of ammo, you can do wonders at keeping the screaming hordes at bay.

Better yet, a water coolant system! Didn't the Vickers have something like that?


erikm, and others:

Too complex. You've gotta start with First Principles, (ie: the right of the peacable individual human to bear arms shall not ever be messed with by anyone for any reason ) because if you try to solve it at the level of procedure, you'll always find a circumstance under which the procedure breaks, and or fails to serve the first principle.
 
Better yet, a water coolant system! Didn't the Vickers have something like that?
Water cooling was IIRC very common for ground medium machine guns until after WWI. And even after that water cooling turned up from time to time. I'm fairly sure one of the bigger swiss 24mm antitank guns had a water jacket.
I'm also certain the OTO Melara Compact 76mm naval gun used around the world today (the USN calls it the Mark 75) is water cooled. Water cooling is more or less mandatory if the gun is spec'ed to fire 80 to 120 rounds (for the Super Rapid variant) per minute. This is a 3" artillery piece with a range of more than 10 miles. :D

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:
 
They'd all go.

Anybody who'd ever advocated restrictions of 2nd ammendment rights would be well advised to **** about it.

Anybody who'd ever participated in restrictions of 2nd ammendment rights would be subject to strict reparations for damages done, punative confiscation of property, jail time and/or banishment.
 
keep it simple, silly. . .

No firearms laws. No restrictions. Social consciousness and political participation would probably change remarkably, and quickly were the intestinal fortitude and prerequisite spine found to repeal everything , and I don't think that would be bad.

We're a unique Republic, yes? Unlike any other Nation in all of recorded history - so let's claim it and live the vision.

Of course, I'd also repeal all laws concerning narcotics, save that anyone with measurable narcotics or alcohol present (to any test, to any degree) operating or employed by any transportation, security (including all Defense departments), power, emergency services (including medical/pharmecutical) or communication system receives a mandatory five years hard labor, first offense, no appeal. Private employers are free to add their employees to that standard at their discretion.

I believe it would create something wonderful. . .

Trisha
 
...Anybody who'd ever participated in restrictions of 2nd ammendment rights would be ...


Hey, waitaminute!

Doesn't the federal form have a question about participating in activities that restrict people's civil rights? Wouldn't that bar legislators and LEOs from posessing arms?

Well? Wouldn't it?:neener:
 
Hmm ... seems that some people here have fallen into the "Eeek! It's a (Machine GUN! / explosive or incindiary cartridge / something else I saw used as an impossibly destructive weapon on a movie)! There must be at least some form of regulation over and above what you'd regulate the guns that I'm interested in."

Personally, I've never understood how someone could refuse to regulate shotguns but be up in arms about outlawing select-fire weapons. Subguns especially.
*sigh*
Which gets more projectiles out faster, hmmm? A few loads of 00 buck or a magazine from a subgun? Are you going to tell me that a Skorpion machine pistol in .32 ACP is more worthy of control than a shotgun? Gimme a break.

I'll sign on to LawDog's post, I think.

I do have one question for those who say "NO WMD!". Not that I disagree, but where do you draw the line between conventional weapon and WMD? Which (if any) of the following list would be WMD?
Firecracker
Flashbang
Hand grenade
RPG
155mm explosive projectile
Case of dynamite
500 lb iron bomb
2000 lb cluster bomb
MOAB
A very small nuke

... just curious.
 
I think you forgot one, cordex:

Ignorance (gross stupidity qualifies too, I guess)
*laugh*

In my defense, I was limiting my list of potential "Weapons of Mass Destruction" to explosive devices of some construction, but I think you did correctly identify the major WMD that is extraordinarily simple to possess. No background checks, age limits or safety classes required.
 
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