If You Open Carry

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by PAOLO721, Aug 18, 2008.

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  1. PAOLO721

    PAOLO721 Member

    Nov 24, 2003
    New Hampshire, USA
    .............could this not happen to you?


    Man lunges at traffic officer; struggle ensues

    By Ian B. Murphy
    GateHouse News Service
    Posted Aug 07, 2008 @ 12:00 PM

    Arlington, Mass. — A Lexington man allegedly lunged at an Arlington police officer directing traffic yesterday, initiating a life-or-death struggle as he grabbed for the officer’s gun while the two wrestled on Massachusetts Avenue in Arlington.

    Albert J. Sweet, 38, of 33 Ewell Ave. in Lexington, was arrested and charged with assault with intent to murder, attempted larceny of a firearm, assault with a dangerous weapon, and assault and battery on a police officer.

    Arlington Police Chief Fredrick Ryan said Officer Brandon Kindle was working a traffic detail at a construction site on the 1200 block of Massachusetts Avenue when Sweet approached him on a bicycle. Sweet then jumped off the bicycle and ran towards Kindle shouting homicidal and suicidal remarks. Sweet allegedly grabbed for Kindle’s gun and set off a violent struggle in the street.

    “It’s abundantly clear that his intent was to kill himself, and anybody else who got in the way of that goal, by taking the officer’s firearm,” Ryan said.

    After Kindle subdued Sweet, he was booked at the Arlington police station and then transported to Bridgewater State Hospital, where he was kept overnight.

    Sweet will be arraigned today at Cambridge District Court. Calls to his residence were not returned.

    Ryan said his department would ask for Sweet to return to Bridgewater State Hospital for further evaluation.

    “Clearly there are mental health issues that the court will factor into his conditions of release,” he said.

    Ryan said that if Kindle requested counseling the department would provide it, but these occurrences are not as uncommon as one might think.

    “This instance was obviously much more violent than most,” said Ryan. “It’s part of their job. This case highlights the difficult job that local police officers do every day. Just when you think your assignment to direct traffic is a matter of routine, it becomes a life-or-death struggle. In this case, I think the officer did an outstanding job.”
  2. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

    Mar 9, 2006
    Silver Springs NV
  3. TallPine

    TallPine Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    somewhere in the middle of Montana
    Most anything could happen.

    What's your point? :rolleyes:
  4. jahwarrior

    jahwarrior Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    Dickson City, PA
    it's possible. it's also possible that a jumbo jet will crash into my house tomorrow morning.

    there are plenty of accounts of cops fighting off gun grabs. how many have read or seen involving john q. public? i've been looking for an article for 4 weeks now, and i've yet to find one. guys who are trying to commit suicide-by-cop look for exactly that: cops. they're not looking for some guy filling his tank at the gas station. maybe it's because OC is still not as common in certain areas, but it's common enough that someone would have heard of a gun grab by now.

    so, yeah, it could happen. but it doesn't make CC any better than OC, just different. so quit it, already.
  5. spwenger

    spwenger Member

    Nov 24, 2006
    Show Low AZ

    ...around eight or nine years ago a man was killed in south Phoenix when he was attacked by a pair of men who had decided to relieve him of his openly holstered handgun. If it's important for you to be a poster child for the RKBA, by carrying openly, (a) use a holster with some sort of retention device and (b) get some training in weapon retention.
  6. Picard

    Picard Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    Yes, it could happen. What's the point?

    I could also get car-jacked while driving my car. Should I stop driving?

    The benefits of showing others the importance and normality of the RKBA is more important than the slight risk of someone trying to grab the gun when open carrying in my opinion. To each his own however.
  7. Huddog

    Huddog Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    Yes, thus one of the reasons I choose not to open carry. Although, I greatly respect those that choose to do so. I prefer to keep my gun concealed and my knife in my pocket.
  8. maestro pistolero

    maestro pistolero Member

    Jul 2, 2008

    +1 My Brother a police lieutenant has a holster that I could not figure out in over 5 minutes of trying. That was WiTHOUT someone kicking my ass at the same time. He, o the other hand, drew the gun instantly.

    OC'ing in an urban area without a retention holster, and/or without weapon retention training is irresponsible, in my opinion.
  9. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Dec 24, 2002
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    I could be attacked by ravening muskrats, too.
  10. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

    Sep 7, 2007
    Rocky Mountains
    The thing that I find really suprising is that they let the suicidal guy who now has even LESS to live for go home while awaiting arraignment. Talk about streamlining the process... :uhoh:

    And yes, of course this could happen to someone who carries openly. The guy could have also picked anyone he saw sitting at a stoplight in their car, stolen THAT (and he would have if he was smart), and driven it into a wall at 100 miles per hour.

    So keep your doors locked, just like I'd recommend a retention holster if you open carry.
  11. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

    Nov 7, 2005
    Utah, USA

    I don't care how you carry, if you are not aware of your surroundings you will not survive. It's all about keeping the bad guy from getting a jump on you.

    I was carrying concealed when I went to the bank today and there was a situation that raised the hair on the back of my neck. Turns out I was wrong in my assesment but I positioned myself to be ready anyway.
  12. dougwg

    dougwg Member

    Mar 25, 2008
    Westland, MI
    I'm all for assisted suicide.
  13. ScottyT

    ScottyT Member

    May 2, 2008
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    If you use the stairs...

    ..............could this not happen to you?

    August 17, 2008 - 10:34PM
    The Telegraph

    A man injured after falling down stairs at the Brussels Picnic has died, police said Sunday.

    Jacob Hagen, 22, of Brussels, was seen walking alone from the picnic grounds at St. Mary's School toward the concrete steps and the Brussels gymnasium about 12:30 a.m. Aug. 10 as the annual church picnic was wrapping up, Calhoun County Sheriff Bill Heffington said last week.

    Hagen suffered a severe head injury in the fall.

    "There is no evidence that alcohol was a factor," Heffington said. "It appears he missed a step and fell. Those stairs are steep and narrow, and while the area is lit, the lighting isn't very bright."

    Hagen lived with his parents, Rita and Keith Hagen.
  14. bogie

    bogie Member

    Jan 2, 2003
    St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state
    Guys, quit using testosterone to fuel your thinking processes, step back, and impartially look at the situation, okay? This is NOT a competition as to who has the biggest open carry attitude...

    Why I lean away from it: A few years back, Missouri had a ballot referendum on CCW. It was pretty hotly debated. One fellow I ran into said that if he was in a restaurant, and he noticed that someone had a concealed weapon, he'd take his steak knife and kill them before they could hurt someone. No amount of attempted reasoning could persuade him that someone with no ill intent could be carrying a weapon.

    If you're out to dinner, and this clown (or one of his clown-brothers) is in the restaurant with you, you could have a problem. What do you do when some misguided, misinformed, mis-brained fellow decides that he's gonna play hero?

    IMHO, let's boil this frog gradually...
  15. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    South of the Mason-Dixon Line
    Methinks his weapon is not concealed if someone notices it. :evil:
  16. Intune

    Intune Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    On Old Hickory Lake near Nashville TN
    That's also the exact spot where ravening muskrats await unsuspecting pedestrians. Keep that noggin on a swivel folks. Fear the fur... :uhoh:
  17. Drgong

    Drgong Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Ashe Co, NC and Gastonia NC
    exactly, and if open carry happens, then people see a guy go into a gas station, buy himself a root beer and a pack of crackers, and goes on with a a gun on his belt, that GASP, gun does not equal evil.

    though a retention holster does make a lot of sense if you do open carry.
  18. Prepster

    Prepster Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Retention holster, awareness, and attitude > the occaisional nutcase
  19. Harley Man

    Harley Man Member

    Jul 30, 2008
    Arlington Texas
    You know it's like keeping a hand on your wallet in a croud. People get there wallet's lifted all the time, but that doesn't stop them from carrying one. If you OC keep a arm or something on it, as well as keep an eye out for trouble.
  20. Happiness Is A Warm Gun

    Happiness Is A Warm Gun Member

    Jul 8, 2008
    Chesapeake, Virginia
    Wow. So we surrender our rights because of nuts.

    What if the same man said "if he was in a restaurant, and he noticed that a black man sat down, he'd take his steak knife and kill them before they could hurt someone".

    Statistically African-Americans kill more people on per capita basis than CHP holders do.

    Would you advise your Black friends to stay away from restaurants? Would you say I know it is your right to eat in mixed race restaurants but I am concerned about you. For your own good stay home. Why provoke this guy.

    Why not report the guy to the police for making a threat. He clearly articulated harm, even going so far as to describe the method, and location the attack would occur. Likely the cops wouldn't charge him but maybe the seeing the boys in blue might make him stop being such as ass.

    Sure there will be people everywhere who may do something at some point.
    If it was a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGE issue then we would be seeing LOTS of stories.
    Not one or two a year (out of millions of OC gun owners) but dozens every month.

    We haven't. It isn't an issue.

    For ever person out there that is
    1) looking for assisted suicide
    2) looking to kill an Open Carry holder w/ steak knife
    3) looking to rob an Open Carry holder for his gun (likely most dangerous method of getting a firearm imaginable)

    there is a person that:
    1) attacks a CHP because he didn't know he was carrying and looked like easy target
    2) attacks a CHP holder because he left his weapon at home because it was difficult/uncomfortable to conceal.
    3) attacks a CHP with brutal first hit/stab/shot that renders the weapon useless anyways.

    IF any such correlation between OC and more crime existed the Brady campaign would be publishing the study not to promote CC but to end OC; Something like "People who OC are 27% more likely to be assaulted and 17% more likely to die. Stop OC to end gun violence" or some such nonsense. Not a peep from Brady about it. They do have tons of anecdotal evidence to support the fact that people who CC are in more danger not less. I don't believe it but if you believe anecdotes why don't you believe in Brady's?

    There is no report.
    There is no flood of news stories.
    There is no issue.
  21. Happiness Is A Warm Gun

    Happiness Is A Warm Gun Member

    Jul 8, 2008
    Chesapeake, Virginia
    Agreed. My favorite type is Sherpa CQC, the button needs to be pushed w/ trigger finger to release the weapon. For me the button is naturally where my trigger finger is during draw so it doesn't slow the draw by more than a negligible amount.

    Alas Blackhawk doesn't make one for the M&P 9c.:banghead:

  22. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Even if. Even if it makes me less safe, sometimes, I am willing to be less safe.

    I don't carry openly for my safety.

    I carry openly because this right is not a shameful secret.
  23. JesseL

    JesseL Member

    Aug 26, 2004
    Prescott, AZ
    I don't worry about running into a guy like that because, around here, odds are that he's already dead or in prison. Seeing someone open carrying isn't such a rare event that I'm likely to be the first one ever seen by such a nut.

    Aside from that, there are all kinds of completely off-the-wall things that can trigger violence from somebody who is that crazy. I could worry about the guy who gets enraged by people with blue eyes and wear sunglasses, but then what about the lunatic who goes berserk when he sees sunglasses?
  24. Bobo

    Bobo Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Central, VA
    Are you serious? This almost sounds made up. If not, the guy in question has a few loose screws. So he'd stab an innocent person just because he's nervous? Maybe he likes the idea of spending the rest of his in life in jail for murder. Could be - he sounds nutty enough!

    For this I reason should not carry? I don't get the logic...:confused:

    Personally, I believe any open carry holster should have a retention device - but not concealed carry, except maybe a shoulder holster especially a vertical style.

  25. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    Stalingrad, USA
    I still don't have a problem with open carry... ya know, sheet happens. Maybe if MA didn't have such restrictive gun laws, this guy could have just gone to a gun shop, legally bought a gun, and proceeded to kill himself as he intended. Then he wouldn't have had to target the cop to get a gun.

    To me, this says a lot more about the fallacies of gun laws than it does about open carry.
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