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If you were to design a new cartridge for concealed carry!

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by wcwhitey, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. Fyrstyk

    Fyrstyk Member

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    Not a new design that I am aware of, but I would like to see a "J" framed revolver chambered for a .25 caliber rim fire based on the .17 Winchester super mag case.
     
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  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Easy, if they cared, the .17 WSM started out as a necked down .25 industrial.
     
  3. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    A rimmed 38 cal about the same case length as 9x19. Wait, it exits, or did. That would be the old black powder 38 Short Colt. Apparently the basis for the 38 Long Colt and 38 Spl.

    So I loaded some up using a fast powder, Starline brass and 125 grn bullets. Had 3 different loads and found one just right for my S&W model 36. Using this case a J frame could become substantially shorter.

    I don't have any chronograph data but I'm working on it.

    I also don't have any hopes of anyone actually building a revolver for it either.



    38.jpg

    Short Colt, Long Colt, Special and 357. For comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023 at 11:00 AM
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  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    There are folks loading .38 SC for USPSA and ICORE for easier reloading.

    Federal and Charter Arms had the 9mm Federal, but it
    1. Didn't catch on commercially.
    2. The Frightened Experts pointed out that it would chamber in a .38 S&W top break but at three times the chamber pressure.
     
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  5. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    I've been saying for years that I want that in a rifle.
     
  6. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    https://john1911.com/9mm-federal/
     
  7. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    I'd pass up the cartridge and go right to a phased plasma pistol in the 40 watt range. Battery tech has advanced enough that a pocket sized unit could hold enough charge for 16 to 20 bursts in the semi auto mode.
     
  8. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    That's like shooting +P or +P+ 38 Spl. ammo in an old J frame. They weren't designed for those pressures as those were introduced around 1950. I'm not seeing a problem here however. A person needs to know the ammo they put into a firearm.

    I understand the liability issues but those exist with more than just the 38 Spl. Lots of other things we use daily have warning labels on them. Nobody seems to get too worked up over those. Put the information on the box of ammo. I'm sure somebody is going to drink Clorox but I doubt they can win a lawsuit if they do because it says not to do that on the container.

    Bottom line is 38 S&W is a totally different cartridge than a 38 Short Colt. The case dia. for 38 S&W is .386" where the 38 SC is .379". Yeah, it will fit. So will 25 people in an elevator but they have load limits posted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023 at 9:53 PM
  9. 270OKIE

    270OKIE Contributing Member

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    What's wrong with the good ol' 45ACP or 45 Colt?
    Edit, I didn't mean to de rail your point completely off the tracks... Sorry.
    I do understand you wanting a different take on the "32" caliber cartridges though. See I wonder if some crazy person could come up with a way to develop barrels and powders to get max velocity out of a short barrel so we could get 357 mag performance out of 9mm cases and then 45 Colt performance out of 45 ACP cases and so on and so forth. But I'm not Albert Einstein lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023 at 8:40 PM
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  10. 270OKIE

    270OKIE Contributing Member

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    Quad stack 45 ACP 1911 from Kel-Tec when?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023 at 8:41 PM
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  11. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    I would just build a gun around 7.62 tokarev or 32 NAA. They are what makes sense even though they aren’t very popular.
     
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  12. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Member

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    "New"? A semi auto .44 cal (.429") cartridge that fits 45/10mm Auto sized guns.
     
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  13. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    You didn’t derail anything. All good it’s an opinion question, no wrong ones.
     
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  14. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Random Guy

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    I’d take the 25acp and increase the case length slightly and push it to 1200-1400 fps.
     
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  15. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

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    We have the .38SC cases, just not a modern gun with shorten cylinder to match.

    We could dream of a .44 equivalent. Call it a .44 Short Sauve. Then we’d need a shorten frame and cylinder to match.
     
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  16. gnappi

    gnappi Member

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    Everything that can or should be designed already is. Some calibers that were not widely used are mostly gone, some have experienced a pendulum swing in popularity and will come and go.

    New cartridges needed? Nah it's already out there unless lead is outlawed then the casing may need re-thinking to accommodate materials like bismuth, copper/zinc or other "non-toxic" alloys.
     
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  17. BLACKHAWKNJ

    BLACKHAWKNJ Member

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    Reminds me of the old joke about the ideal hunting rifle-it weighs 3 ounces when carried, 30 pounds when fired, kicks like a 22, has the range and accuracy of a 30/06, hits like a .458.
     
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  18. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

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    Besides what the majority thinks the 40 S&W is close to perfect for a fullsize or compact pistol…
     
  19. Archie

    Archie Member

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    I think 'the' cartridge has already been invented. Developed would be more accurate. The .41 Special. A .41 magnum with the case shortened. The reverse, more or less of the development of the .357 Magnum from the .38 Special. A revolver in a K frame size would be most convenient, probably with five rounds.

    Probably never work. Not enough impulsive buyers who actually can hit the target.
     
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  20. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

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    8B3E9DDC-4600-41E4-9A44-806A7E217BA4.jpeg
    One of my favorite carry revolvers
    Charter 40 S&W
    Less recoil and fuss than a 357 mag
    Much more punch than a 38 Spl and larger diameter
    and a 180gr bullet
     
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  21. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    @Archie i always thought of the .40 S&W as the auto version of the LE .41 Mag and what it was originally meant to be.
     
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  22. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

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    I think the resurgence of the 10mm will boost the
    40 S&w
    People will want a more compact 10mm for EDC … that 10mm is the 40S&W
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023 at 11:31 AM
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  23. 21H40

    21H40 Member

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    No one else wants to see a 50 Special? 300 grain bullets at 800 FPS?
    That or the other end of the spectrum, a 5mm magnum with 70 grain projectiles at 1500 fps?

    40's and 10's are great, but this question is about imagining something new not acceptance of the status quo. :D
     
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  24. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Frederick Pohl armed corporate security with the .25 Ultra High Velocity in one of his dystopian SF stories.
    So we could do to the .25 what the .30 Super Carry did to the .32 family.

    The 7mm Pena and 7.9mm VBL were meant to fill the small calibre service pistol niche in Europe, but did not catch on.
     
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  25. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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