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IL CC Permit applications approved - it's starting

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by stargeezer, Jan 20, 2014.

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  1. Trent

    Trent Member

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    So much of the interpretation of law can come down to the placement of a comma, or lack thereof.

    In this case, lacking a comma after the OR you reference, means the entire clause is read together as a list, modifying the portion of the section in front of "government," which is the subject of restriction (use of comma + "that" indicates restriction to the subject) ... but the portion following "as established" is unclear as to target.

    They should have included a comma after "permitted" to establish that the last portion (as established by...) affects both portions of that segment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  2. stargeezer

    stargeezer Member

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    See what I mean... I'm just a tired old soldier. The only clause I ever worried over when I was a kid was Santa. See where that got me? :D

    I hope they can clear some of this up in this session, because this is just a dumb mistake that will catch a lot of us. The notion that before I can enter the drive of a state CG I have to pull off, clear my handgun, store it in the camper in the approved condition is just dumb.

    Do I want to be setting up camp with the pistol digging a hole in my side? No, but it's those times when you are busy on a task and not paying attention to your surroundings and vulnerable that will cost a person.

    Like I said, until it's made abundantly clear what they mean and/or they insert some clear language (third grade level), I'll disarm and be a good serf, but I won't like it.
     
  3. jutinlee

    jutinlee Member

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    I applied at the end of the first week of open applications and I'm anxiously awaiting.
    The good news is there have yet to be any denials in my county, (granted, there were only 31 applications filed in week one.)
    The scarey part for me is will I be the one that has to go through the court system to clarify all of this garbled mess of a law..??
    It needs reworked but I'll take it as it is until something better comes around.
     
  4. stargeezer

    stargeezer Member

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    This is most likely the wrong place to post this, but since it is my thread and since I'm trying to figure out how to be legal, I'll risk the ire of our very indulging mods.

    Since I sit in a wheelchair finding a holster/belt/gun combination has been a bit of a nightmare. Pressure sores are no fun to deal with when you are paralyzed and can't feel the problem before it turns into a bigger problem and you go to the hospital. So finding the right "fit" has led me to "own" a box full of holsters.

    Today I got a Galco M7X Matrix for my XD9 3" and while it is visible with me in the chair, I can cover it with a vest or tee shirt in the summer. Here's a pic of it mounted;
    IMG_02011_zps09419b68.gif

    With the consideration that it needs to be covered, does anybody see any other problem? I'm not sure about getting a seat belt over it yet, but it really fits in that little gap under my armrest without pressing the pistol into my hide like most have.

    Thanks.
     
  5. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    Looks tough to draw from, but other than that, if you conceal it, I can't see another issue?


    Larry
     
  6. jutinlee

    jutinlee Member

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    Stargeezer, why not shoulder holster carry? From seated they seem to outweigh the complaints many have versus a belt holster while seated.
    I personally will shoulder carry when the permit arrives as I work at a desk moat days.
     
  7. stargeezer

    stargeezer Member

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    Drawing is not the problem it might appear. In fact it's just a straight reach back and what you can't see in that photo is that there's a open space right where the pistol grip is. Easy to grip AND to put back with a lean to the right.

    jutinlee - yeah, I know shoulder systems are made for people who sit and while I did buy a cheap one to see how that might work, I bumped into a problem with them. Galco and another brand I looked at only come in sizes for people who have a 52" chest. I've put on weight in the past year that I'm trying to get back off right now, but even when I was in perfect shape in the Army I had a 54" chest. I'm bigger now. I had a Miami Classic years ago (before I was injured) and made some extensions for it, but in the wheelchair, I'm not too sure it would work. and when we are in FL and it's 90 degrees, wearing a vest or jacket is just brutal. :D
     
  8. Trent

    Trent Member

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    What about a bag that drapes over or attaches to one of the arms of the chair?
     
  9. Trent

    Trent Member

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    With regards to the shoulder holster.. aside from the size issue, I'm usually very much against shoulder holsters. I had a USP fall out once when the snap popped open getting out of my car, it hit the pavement with the muzzle pointed directly at my face.. if it hadn't been a 'drop safe' gun that would have been the end of me.

    BUT... if you're sitting all the time, not nearly as much of a concern. Where I envision the problem would be moving from the chair to other areas.. toilet, couch, bed, etc. Especially since you are wheelchair bound, that movement will be done with your arms, and if a seat-belt brushing the snap dislodged my gun, I would think the same thing could happen if you were re-positioning yourself with your arms.
     
  10. wildbilll

    wildbilll Member

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    You appear to be in your "vehicle" and thusly you can carry a loaded firearm in the vehicle, even into prohibited areas as long as you don't exit until you are in the "parking area", which could be just about anywhere you stop.

    :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  11. jutinlee

    jutinlee Member

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    I spoke to a gentleman an Andrews Leather last week and they have a large size for us big folks, (I have a 54in cheat myself) and he said he could even extend it out some with the ability to shorten it being easier then lengthening. Basically, what I'm saying is, Andrews could potentially accommodate you.
    It's worth checking into.
    The idea of an attached bag or case seems practical as well.
     
  12. stargeezer

    stargeezer Member

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  13. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    Another thing that is starting is the push to amend the FCCA to add more restricted locations.

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/bil...2&GA=98&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=78505&SessionID=85

    A bill by Scott Drury that would ban carry at "truck stops" and any place that has video poker machines or has a license under the Video Gaming Act.

     
  14. Trent

    Trent Member

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  15. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Here's a recap as of 2/5/2014:


    HB4233 deletes language from concealed carry laws that prohibit carrying on public transportation

    HB4234 deletes language from concealed carry law that prohibits carrying in any building that has been issued a special event retailers license (liquor)

    HB3646 - eliminates "50% of revenue" clause for liquor sales, would prohibit carrying guns ANYWHERE alcohol is sold, period. (Including most gas stations...)

    HB3649 - reduces licensing fees of concealed carry from $150 to 100, other cost changes.

    HB3650 - establishes concealed carry reciprocity rules, "shall reciprocate" language, provisions for residents moving to IL to honor their CCW for 90 days, etc.

    HB3651 - reduces concealed carry training requirements from 16 hours to 8 hours.

    HB3669 - increases first time offense of carrying in to a school zone a felony (including colleges and universities, AND including parking areas thereof)

    HB3675 - STRONGLY increases penalties for carrying a gun in to a gun free zone.

    HB3714 - Establishes state wide 2% tax surcharge on ammunition

    HB3725 - exempts federal firearms dealers from concealed carry training requirements

    HB3762 - reduces age of obtaining Firearm Owners ID card from 21, to 18 (consent of guardian age change)



    SB2594 - same as HB 3646

    SB2646 - institutes mandatory $100,000 liability insurance for ALL gun owners (with FOID). Provisions to seize or revoke FOID card and firearms if liability insurance isn't maintained.

    SB2652 - repeals gun free zone on "Special Events" (concerts, etc)

    SB2653 - repeals gun free zones on public gatherings (carnivals, parades, community festivals, etc)

    SB2654 - repeals gun free zones for hospitals, doctors offices, nursing homes, etc.

    SB2669 - effectively prohibits carrying firearms on ALL private property unless you have permission from owner IN ADVANCE.


    SB2646 would give authority to the state police to deny or revoke a FOID if the holder does not have at least $10,000 insurance that covers negligent acts

    SB2669 would make it illegal to carry a firearm onto private property without prior permission from the owner

    SB2653 would remove language about prohibited places (for carrying) in any public gathering or special event on public property

    SB2654 would remove language about prohibited places striking 'Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public or private hospital or hospital affiliate, mental health facility, or nursing home.'

    SB2652 would remove language about prohibited places 'Any building or real property that has been issued a Special Event Retailer's license as defined in Section 1-3.17.1 of the Liquor Control Act during the time designated for the sale of alcohol by the Special Event Retailer's license, or a Special use permit license as defined in subsection (q) of Section 5-1 of the Liquor Control Act during the time designated for the sale of alcohol by the Special use permit license.'

    Illinois HB4319 would add more prohibited places for carrying a firearm including bars, licensed video gaming, licensed fraternal, licensed veterans & licensed truck stop establishments


    Illinois HB4290 - A certified firearms instructor who provides or offers to provide false certification that an applicant has completed firearms training is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor, not eligible for court supervision, and permanent revocation of the firearms instructor certification.

    SB2686 Provides that in cases when the holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card applies for renewal in accordance with the Act and the Department of State Police fails either to approve or deny the renewal of the card within 30 days... shall toll the expiration date of the applicant's Firearm Owner's Identification Card until the Department of State Police has renewed or denied renewal of the applicant's Firearm Owner's Identification Card or until 180 days after the expiration of the applicant's Firearm Owner's Identification Card, whichever is sooner.

    Illinois HB4319 - adds multiple prohibited places to concealed carry; establishments licensed under the Video Gaming Act where alcoholic liquor is drawn, poured, mixed, or otherwise served for consumption on the premises; licensed fraternal establishment, licensed veterans establishment, or licensed truck stop establishment, as defined and licensed under the Video Gaming Act, and alcoholic liquor is not drawn, poured, mixed, or otherwise served for consumption on the premises. Finally, also provides that any person (rather than the owner) lawfully in possession and control of private real property of any type may prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property (deletes under his or her control).


    Illinois HB4376 adds language to existing law regarding the transportation of firearms in a vehicle

    (Somewhat misleading on Illinois HB4376; it does "add" language to the law regarding transportation of a firearm in Aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, and Unlawful use of a weapon, but the net effect is that it removes certain requirements to transportation.

    Currently, people must transport a firearm broken down in a non-functional state, or unloaded and enclosed in a case, shipping container, or other container. This bill would strike the "broken down" and the "in the case..." portion for long guns. So the rifle, shotgun, "or other long gun" just has to be unloaded. Handguns are unaffected.)


    SB2786 - Provides that it is unlawful for any person to possess a suppressor for any firearm that has had its serial number removed or altered. Provides that a violation is a Class 3 felony. Effective immediately. (Makes suppressors "double special illegal in certain cases...)

    SB2806 - Exempts certain licensed security people from Unlawful Use of Weapons. (Background; this is introduced again by Munoz for unknown reasons; it's been a "way around" the concealed carry prohibition by Chicago politicians for awhile, to allow them to carry a firearm when most people couldn't; remember the senator arrested at the airport?)

    HB4507 - Provides that the Department of State Police may not retain, copy, or distribute any information previously collected under the provisions concerning the transfer of firearms, stun guns, and tasers. Provides that the Department shall destroy all records of the dial up telephone system with respect to the call, other than the identifying number and the date the number was assigned, and all records of the system relating to the person or the transfer, within 31 days after the call.

    (Trailer bill for the new FOID transfer TCN requirement there)

    HB4517 Provides that a concealed carry licensee under the Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm on or into any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a restaurant. Defines "restaurant" (highly restrictive, could be used to cover any building with a cooking area, including most workplaces!)


    SB2969 - Amends IL concealed carry so that it doesn't diminish or restricts carrying under other acts (e.g. law enforcement retired, security guards, etc)

    SB2970 - adds "regulation" definition to FOID act (presumably for pre-emptive language elsewhere?)

    SB2994 - Provides that if grants are available to the Department of State Police for this purpose, the Department shall develop and maintain a website and database containing certain information about firearm discharge incidents in public places derived from local incident reports submitted by the law enforcement agency to the Department of State Police on a secure website such as LEADS.

    HB4574 - 5 year suspension of Firearm Owner's Identification Card of a person who has been convicted of a third violation of the provision of the Criminal Code of 2012 that makes it an offense for a person who possesses or acquires a firearm and thereafter loses the firearm, or if the firearm is stolen from the person, to fail to report the loss or theft to the local law enforcement agency within 72 hours after obtaining knowledge of the loss or theft.

    HB4619 - Provides that a non-resident applicant for a new license or renewal shall submit $150 (rather than $300) with the application, of which $120 (rather than $250) shall be apportioned to the State Police Firearm Services Fund, $20 (rather than $40) shall be apportioned to the Mental Health Reporting Fund, and $10 shall be apportioned to the State Crime Laboratory Fund

    HB4620 - Provides that a licensee who presents his or her license to a law enforcement officer who initiates an investigative stop, or a non-resident who presents evidence under the Act that he or she is a non-resident qualified to carry to the officer, shall be deemed to have disclosed that he or she is carrying a concealed firearm as required under the Act.
     
  16. PuskRat

    PuskRat Member

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    How come no one is lining up to proclaim "I've been returned to 'under review!'?" Sit tight guys, we have a long journey ahead. Many more court cases, many more General Assembly Acts.
     
  17. Trent

    Trent Member

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    Well, I think by now we've all figured out that - despite high hopes - the Illinois State Police wasn't competent enough to pull off the "complete system" in the generous 6 month time frame our legislature gave them. Now they're "borrowing" time against our rights to carry, to finish it.

    EDIT: Either that, or there's something more nefarious at play in the back rooms where they're sitting on our permits until the last possible minute. But I'm not putting on the tinfoil hat, quite yet. Too many signs pointing to IT problems recently.
     
  18. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    It is pretty disappointing that the ISP doesn't seem to be aware of basic "IT best practices".

    In the private sector companies have a test environment where they run their tests. The production environment which is customer facing and has live data is not used to test.
     
  19. Trent

    Trent Member

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    CountZero, what really worries me is how secure this PARTICULAR site is.

    Because, ALL of our information is sitting out there on their servers. (CCLISP is the state police portal where they can look at applicants, file objections, etc).

    By ALL of our information, I mean enough information to steal someone's identity.. and then some. ALL of your prior residences. Phone #'s. Date of Birth. Etc..etc...

    The site is registered here;

    But hosted here;


    Now.. a quick Google search revealed some very telling information about employee rollover / turnover / retention / morale.. which is a huge red flag for potential security threats.

    And...

    And...

    And...

    (All sourced from: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Appriss-Reviews-E15741.htm)
     
  20. Trent

    Trent Member

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    I suppose another valid question is "why was this job outsourced to a company in Kentucky?"

    I mean, nothing against Kentucky, but we've got some damn good IT firms in Illinois that could have tackled the project and came out on top, and on time. :)
     
  21. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    I'll say it again; all the top brass at ISP were on witness slips opposing this legislation, and that because they got marching orders from their owners.

    Anyone who believes we'll see permits this side of the unconstitutionally long processing period specified in the legislation should NOT go pricing bridges without an adult.

    Larry
     
  22. stargeezer

    stargeezer Member

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    I may be getting my hopes up foolishly, but that sb 2786 bill, would that mean there might be a bill authorizing suppressors on guns with legible serial numbers????

    I'm sur that would make far too much sense for Illinois.
    '
     
  23. Trent

    Trent Member

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    No, it adds a brand new section. There's a completely different section already on the books with the same exact penalty (class 3 felony) that makes it double special illegal.
     
  24. PuskRat

    PuskRat Member

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    The job was outsourced to Kentucky because it is illegal to operate a business in Illannoy.
     
  25. jigglyjames29

    jigglyjames29 Member

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    I sincerely hope that goes through. I live in the Chicago and have to take the bus/el everywhere. What the hell, IL.
     
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