Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Illegal Immigration-How to fix it?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by garyk/nm, Apr 2, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. garyk/nm

    garyk/nm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    481
    Location:
    New Mexico, USA
    This thread is intended only for those of us who see illegal immigration as a threat to our way of life and the security of our country, as a means for discussing how we might go about influencing our elected officials to see things our way, and not pander to special interest groups.
    If you disagree with the basic premise of the topic, please read no further. I am not interested in debating the merits of the topic. Partycrashers are not welcome and will be reported to mods as disruptive. Fair warning.

    Now, on with the show....

    What is the general opinion on letter-writing to elected officials? Is it having any effect, or are we wasting time? Any better suggestions? Should we be looking for groups to organize large demonstrations, as seems to be working for the opposition?
    Consider the timeliness of your suggestions, as this matter is under debate now in Congress, not after the next election cycle.
     
  2. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,011
    Location:
    outback Kentucky
    I have written till, I tired or writing. They don't seem to listen in Washington. to the Tax payer. They will take note of the protesters how ever and they will back down.. Our country is in a terrible shape and getting worst We have no real choice in who runs for office. Thats decided in back rooms by the party faithful. We are being slowly moved to a one world type gov. With our rights history. I 'm afraid the people will need to retake our country by force.and that will destroy the US forever.
     
  3. ajkurp

    ajkurp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    Idaho
    Remove the incentive

    Eliminate the redistribution of earned wealth we amerikan socialists call welfare. I mean both government welfare to individuals as well as welfare to corporations. Get the government out of subsidized health care.

    Call halt to the "War on Drugs". That also removes incentive to infiltrate our borders for illegal profit.

    Too bitter a pill to swallow? Then learn to speak Spanish.
     
  4. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    943
    Location:
    Seattle
    I've contacted every one of my representatives, and told them what I think.

    I'm quite certain that the result will be what we want.
     
  5. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    680
    Location:
    Palm Beach County
    I contacted my reps. as well Mel Martinez is a RINO and has chimed in supporting the illegals.


    My .02 is forget the illegals entirely. Target their employers illegals have no money and in reality they have nothing to lose and everything to gain in coming here. Now the employers of illegals they have something to lose, money.
    Lock these bums up for hiring illegals and they will quickly start making sure all of their employees are Americans.


    Going to court to fight off a felony is expensive and time consuming when your innocent.


    After people stop hiring illegals they will stop coming because there will be no work for them.
     
  6. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,464
    Location:
    USA
    +eleventybillion
     
  7. Shotgun12

    Shotgun12 Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Oklahoma
  8. Waitone

    Waitone Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,406
    Location:
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=192734 discusses your position in detail.

    That said, our society is quickly approaching nut crackin' time. Our elected officials (remember them? the one's responsible for the mess) would be well advised to do something substantial or events will take on a life of their own. And, No, I am not talking about violence. I am talking about a revolt at the ballot box that would make 1994 look to be a warmup. I'm talking about the rise of passive civil disobedience by heretofore law-abiding citizens who simply refuse to be played the fool.

    The gap between the ruler and the ruled with respect to illegal immigration is wider than any gap I've seen in my lifetime. As someone who grew up in the late 60's and early 70's that is claiming something. For those not alive at that time or for those who have no idea of period history, western civilization in general and US society in particular came very close to spinning apart. At that time the gap was over the Vietnam war and a host of other issues which fed into it. We have the same thing going on with illegal immigration with the added feature of significant percentages of average citizens directly impacted. This issue will not go away, will not be covered over, and will not be reverse spun for the simple reason far too many people have direct, personal knowledge and understanding of what is actually happening.
     
  9. RealGun

    RealGun Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,938
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    I think the Senate is handling it well. I can't say the same for the House bill. It will be interesting to see what hyrid bill ultimately results.

    The only thing I will be writing in about is proposing to clarify under what conditions a child born in the US becomes a citizen and what that means to his parents.
     
  10. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    I've tried writing my representatives about many things. Boxer, Feinstein, Waxman? Right. They hang on my every word.

    New parties are one likely answer. Civil disobedience is probably another fuure development. The real way to get their attention is to cut off the money. How we do that remains to be seen.
     
  11. garyk/nm

    garyk/nm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    481
    Location:
    New Mexico, USA
    I think I posted this once before (hey, I'm old...it's allowed), go to your HR or payroll office and request a new W-4*. Change your withholding to married-15.
    Little to no taxes taken out. If 10 million folks did this, how long do you think it would take for the Feds to notice a severe lack of money coming in?

    * if they ask why, tell them that you got a very large refund for last year and you are trying to adjust to compensate.
     
  12. spartacus2002

    spartacus2002 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,578
    Location:
    St. Pete, FL
    The way to fix it has two centers-of-gravity, one bottom-up and one top-down.

    1. Bottom-up: each individual American refuses to do business with those who hire illegals. No more eating at mexican restaurants who have 20+ busboys who don't speak English. No more saving $2K on your new roof by using contractors who use illegal labor.

    2. Top-down: the government must establish the political willpower to secure the border, round up and deport illegals, and crack down on businesses using illegal labor. AND, AND, come up with a legitimate easy system for a limited number of migrant laborers to come to America WITHOUT EARNING CITIZENSHIP -- and oh by the way, if you're already here illegally, you ain't eligible, brah.

    3. Constitutionally: explicitly amend the Constitution to state that simply being born on American soil doesn't make you a citizen; you have to have one or both parents as citizens. No more anchor babies.

    We can all do #1 individually. However, getting #2 to happen looks like it is doomed, as the politicians can read demographic trends as well as any of us, and now is their big chance to accellerate the growth of the Hispanic population in hopes of securing their votes. I've written, faxed, emailed, called till I'm blue in the face.

    Face it: either the government says No Amnesty and devotes resources to expelling illegals, or America begins becoming El Norte, with Anglo-Americans in the minority. There is very little middle road.
     
  13. Nitrogen

    Nitrogen Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Sachse, Texas
    Vigorosly enforce existing law, for a start.
     
  14. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    Some 14-year-old probably has the answer to this problem in his backpack right now.

    I think if Congress insists on giving away citizenship on the pretext that there are too many miscreants NOT to make them citizens, a lot of people will just starting ignoring the law. It won't happen all at once, just inexorably. This is how people learn to deal with a fascist government. Perhaps this is exactly what The Few have wanted: a good reason to crack down.
     
  15. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    "Old America" is being swapped out for "New America." What abscessed part of Ted Kennedy's brain this master plan emanated from I'm not sure, but we can trace the roots of what we're dealing with now back to his 1965 bill.

    We have no reason to assume, at this juncture of American history, that these tens of millions of proposed newcomers with suffrage are going to be assimilated into anything resembling the America we have known. For those who want America to be more like Mexico, the proposals are, well, perfect, that's all I can say.
     
  16. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    I know many people on this forum think secession is far-fetched. I don't. I think there will be many Americans, looking at what's on the horizon economically, who are going to start thinking about how they can detach their fortunes from this runaway train called The New America. How many of today's American citizens are going to agree with a massive tax increase to cover the amnesty brainstorm?
     
  17. lamazza

    lamazza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I worked as a bartender in downtown chicago for many years. The entire kitchen as well as 3/4 of the waitstaff was illegal-mostly mexican, but many eastern europeans as well. I watched as 3-5 americans came in every day looking for a job, and were turned away. Not only were these illegals taking american jobs, that americans DID want, they were very belligerent towards americans.
    After having seen more than enough of this I called immigration-who did NOTHING. And a second time 2 months later resulted in the same. Not even a visit.
    I really wish there was something that we could legally do to protect our country and our jobs.
     
  18. MadMag

    MadMag member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Kentucky
    First, I have an issue with the term illegal immigration…it is illegal alien. You have legal immigrants (citizens) and illegal aliens. The word immigration makes it sound more politically correct. To my knowledge when INS returns illegal’s the paper work says alien (or un-documented) …. not immigrant.

    Second, the people that represent illegal aliens are now saying they are the “Backbone” of this Country. I am older guy, but did I blink and miss something? What about the average Americans that helped win WWII . Or the Americans that have built and operated our factories and built our hospitals and universities to be some of the best in the world? I thought these people were the Backbone of this Country.

    Third, I think an issue that is still not discussed enough is the huge money that is spent supporting the medical systems that serve illegal aliens. Congress has allotted millions to hospitals in all border states to provide free medical services for illegals. If a hospital does not participate, then they do not receive federal funds for non-paying emergencies. We, the legal tax payers are all paying for this free service.

    One of the worst arguments the illegal alein’s supporters use is that they contribute so much to our economy…not so….it costs us much more than they contribute. In fact, they send much of their earnings back to Mexico.

    Now, I am not inhuman. I understand someone trying to better their living standards, but we cannot support the entire world. While we suffer, the Mexican government goes about it’s normal corrupt way and takes money for its parties without creating new jobs in Mexico. I think if we are strong in the USA it will help Mexico in the long haul by forcing them to address the real issues at hand and creating more internal jobs.

    Didn’t mean to make this long, but this is one of my hot buttons.
     
  19. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,652
    Location:
    Sunny San Diego
    The way to fix illegal immigration is to fix Mexico.
    Dont ask me how to do that.
    The country is lacking a viable middle class to sustain itself and the government is too corrupt. With no rule of law, choas reigns.
     
  20. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,801
    You can end it if you all decide to:
    1. Quit wanting cheap Walmart pricing.
    2. Work for 3 to 6 dollars/hr.
    3. Do hard labor such as digging a ditch, landscaping, washing dishes, car wash, factory labor, etc.
    4. Willing to cut out all beni's.
    6. Are willing to pay much more in everything you do and buy.

    Until then shut up and quit complaining. Congress won't do nothin cause their smart enough to recognize the economic impact throwing the illegals out would cause. All they will do is give cheap lip service.
    Spend some time outside of chat rooms and fantasy SHTF dreams and educate yourselves on the reality of life!

    Feel free to report me as a subversive.


    Economics of immigration could defy laws
    Experts: Despite greater enforcement, illegal workers will continue to come

    Jack Dempsey / AP
    Updated: 3:16 p.m. ET April 2, 2006
    To the mostly immigrant workers and American employers who cross paths at El Centro Humanitario — a former car wash converted to a day labor agency on the fringes of downtown Denver — the nation’s heated debate over illegal immigration is no abstract concept. It’s economic reality.

    “If people are willing to pay another $20,000 for their $200,000 house, then fine,” said Chuck Saxton, a contractor who regularly hires immigrant workers for a fraction of what full-time U.S. workers would cost, to help him build additions and finish basements for Denver-area homeowners. “But if not, we need to talk about the consequences of throwing out 12 million people.”

    Those consequences — for U.S. businesses and consumers and the illegal workers who provide a consistent source of cheap, dependable labor — are impossible to deny.

    That point has been largely overlooked as congressional lawmakers clash over proposals to step up enforcement and legalize foreign workers. But, regardless of the measures they devise, the economic forces underpinning illegal immigration will be exceedingly difficult to alter, experts say.

    “If we enact a law that makes clear we’re going to dramatically increase enforcement without allowing greater legal flows, employers and illegal immigrants will find ways around it,” said Gordon Hanson, an economist at the University of California at San Diego.

    While it is difficult to predict precisely what would happen as a result of future changes in the law, Hanson’s assertion is backed up by past experience.

    Illegal workers will continue to come
    The last time Congress overhauled immigration laws in 1986, the rhetoric was at least as heated and sentiments were largely the same. Illegal immigration was alleged to pose a threat to national security. Critics said unauthorized workers were taking good-paying American jobs. Foreign workers were accused of taking advantage of the nation’s generosity by soaking up public benefits.

    In the end, lawmakers passed a bill that granted amnesty to workers already here, while promising to clamp down on the flow of new arrivals. Congress ordered employers to require documents from their workers, and said there would be consequences if they didn’t.

    Illegal workers, though, kept coming.

    In the two decades since, the number of illegal immigrants in the United States has grown from about 4 million to between 11.5 million and 12 million, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. More than 40 percent — about 4.4 million people — have arrived within the past five years.

    They account for about one in every four farm workers, hold 17 percent of all jobs in cleaning and building maintenance, 14 percent of all construction jobs and 12 percent of food preparation jobs, the center says.

    Would tough new laws change that? The 1986 reforms failed because border and workplace enforcement were both weak, experts say.

    Some lawmakers are calling for all employers to screen workers through a national computer system designed to catch those with fraudulent documents. A bill already passed by the House would require much more aggressive border enforcement, including an extensive fence along the frontier with Mexico.

    Unlike the enforcement-focused House measure, a bill from the Senate Judiciary Committee calls for offering workers who are already here a chance at amnesty and citizenship over an extended timetable. At the same time, it would create a guest worker program to allow a continued flow of temporary workers, a response to intense lobbying by business groups.

    But experts say that while the provisions in some of the bills might slow the steady stream of arrivals, that would only be temporary.

    “When all the dust clears, we’re going to have higher levels of legal immigration and lower levels of illegal immigration, but within a few years we’ll return to the levels that we’ve seen,” said Peter Schuck, a Yale University professor specializing in immigration law and policy. “Immigrants will figure it out. The zeal of enforcement will wane.”

    The problem is that enforcement is no match for potent underlying economics, experts say.

    More than half the illegal workers in the United States are from Mexico, where the past decade’s currency devaluation and debt crisis have created tremendous economic volatility. At the same time, the Mexican labor market has been fed by a baby boom a generation behind the one in the United States. The combination has created tremendous economic pressure, pushing a surplus of workers to seek out opportunities better than those offered at home.

    U.S. demand for cheap labor
    The Rev. Ricardo Hernandez of Sts. Peter and Paul Roman Catholic Church in Rockford, Ill., knows their stories well.

    “I think they will keep on working no matter what changes are made in the law, and they’ll still be hired by many business people who want only to find cheap labor,” said Hernandez, many of whose parishioners are undocumented immigrants from his native Mexico, working in construction, retail and restaurant jobs. “Things are so bad in Mexico that they will have to work here, and they will stay even if the pay is very low.”

    Hernandez points to one couple at his church, both in this country illegally, who work at a restaurant in nearby Belvidere, Ill., for $3.50 an hour — well below the federal minimum wage of $5.15 and Illinois’ $6.50 hourly minimum.

    Even as overseas economics have pushed workers to leave their home countries, the rapid growth in the U.S. economy during the 1990s fueled huge new demand. It took a while for the boom to reach California, long home to the nation’s largest immigrant population, where post-Cold War cuts in defense spending prolonged a downturn. But robust economic growth elsewhere drew large numbers of new immigrants to states that had previously seen relatively few, and into new industries, too.

    Illegal workers flocked to factory jobs in Illinois, to clean hotel rooms and work in restaurants in Georgia, and to build homes in North Carolina and Colorado.

    Saxton, the Denver-area contractor, said he began hiring immigrant workers about four years ago, after some of the American day laborers he’d previously hired arrived for work drunk. He needed 15 men for 3 days to dig out a basement, and found he could hire immigrant workers for $8 an hour.

    He now pays $10 to $12 an hour. But he points out that is much cheaper then the $35 an hour he’d have to pay for full-time U.S.-born employees, including the cost of worker’s compensation insurance.

    “These guys work hard, they’re honest, they’re nice. I trust them with my tools, money anything,” Saxton said.

    Overstated importance?
    While illegal immigrants play a crucial role in the economy, their importance is sometimes overstated. Foreign workers account for less than 5 percent of the nation’s labor force. They are concentrated by industry and geography in ways that would cushion the larger economy should they removed from it. While their labor affects the prices consumers pay for some goods, it is but one component.

    Proponents of tougher immigration laws argue that the country has workers capable of doing the jobs done by immigrants, but that businesses must pay more.

    “At what point in the last 20 years did Americans wake up and say ’I no longer want to work in construction for $17 an hour?”’ said John Keeley of the Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates stricter controls.

    But business groups argue that growth in the number of workers in the United States is slowing, that most young workers do not want jobs that are often seasonal and temporary and involve tough manual labor.

    The solution is a “practical real-world guest worker program that permits an appropriate number of guest workers in this country to address a growing need for labor to keep our economy strong,” said Bob Dolibois, executive vice president of the American Nursery and Landscape Association, which has lobbied for such a change in the law.

    The reality, though, is that given the motivations of the businesses and workers at its center, regulating the flow of workers at the periphery of the economy will be very difficult, whether or not immigration is legal, experts say.

    “You’re trying to legislate and end immigration in the face of tremendous economic demand for illegal immigrants,” Hanson said. “Just like with the illegal drug trade, we can say it’s illegal, but that doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen.”

    © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
     
  21. woerm

    woerm Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Glitter Gulch, LSR
    fix, short

    patrol border, detain illegals, imprison for about 5 years and then deport, felony arrest and prision record would prevent 'legal' immigration later. ie we have fingerprints etc.:uhoh:

    deny entry to pregger female non citizens period. non citizen shows up at hospital, deport don't treat.

    detail illegals when found export to capital city of home country, then turn them over to local federal police w/ felony record (we have their prints). ship children of illegals with them, the kids can come back at 18 when they decide to claim one citizenship or the other.

    set up real time id check at employment. make possession of fake id fed felony.

    enforce daylights out of the above issue would go away in 90 to 100 days at step 1 and 2

    then implement Sparticus number 1 to wrap up and report residual illegal components

    If we can't secure our borders we aren't a country.

    yes it's vile, yes it takes being 'mean' but that is afaik the only way to 'fix' this and

    there are legal ways to immigrate.:scrutiny:

    r
     
  22. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    Stop making the consumer the be-all and end-all of the American economy; focus instead on producing. American consumption has become an addiction, and it is fueled by DEBT, which is day by day weakening this nation and undermining its future. You aren't fixing that problem by importing more unskilled, uneducated workers to keep the problem going, especially if you end up adding them and their dependents to the social welfare roles.

    Illegal aliens the "backbone" of America? That will be news to Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Lee De Forest, William Shockley, Robert Noyce, and Steve Wozniak. It will be news to the American soldiers who fought and died in WW I and WW II.

    No, not the backbone but close to the backbone, damn close. Just aim south a little.
     
  23. mcg-doc

    mcg-doc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Augusta, GA
    Illegals come here like flies to the honey. We should turn our attention to the employers who illegally hire these Mexicans. Take away their business licenses. Encourage competitors and public to report all the businesses that have such workers. Confiscate the illegally gained profits and give whistle-blowers a reword.
     
  24. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    943
    Location:
    Seattle
    Brilliant...

    How, exactly, will you know? I mean, since the people who have seen the papers don't? :rolleyes:
     
  25. Shotgun12

    Shotgun12 Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Exactly - then bring 'em up on charges of, aiding and abetting criminals .... then treason. - though it'll never happen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2006
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page