Illegal to ship handgun to Florida?

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wayneinFL

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I carelessly bid on a handgun from a private seller on Gunbroker.

I've called 2 dealers in my area and talked to another in person today. All have told me that is absolutely illegal to ship a handgun from a nonlicensee to a FFL dealer. Today I asked "Since when?"

"Ever since I've been in business."

Is this a rule just in Florida? Or are the dealers ignorant/lying?
 
Nope. That used to be made up by nervous dealers, now common carrier policy.
The Feds say


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]
 
Just had a Rossi 92 rifle sent from the guy I bought it from(not a FFL) to my FFL here in clearwater Florida. Sent from Arizona, my FFL wanted a bill of sale showing date of sale and who to get ahold of (me) easy Peasy . If no date of sale, it has to set the mandatory 3 business day waiting period if you don't have a CCP. I would say they don't want to bother with itso they tell you NO. Find a FFL that will.
 
Jim Watson said:
Nope. That used to be made up by nervous dealers, now common carrier policy.
The Feds say


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]
Click to expand...
This FAQ answer while mostly correct has one glaring error.....in red.
The only time a common carrier is required to be notified is when shipping interstate from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee....which is illegal to begin with.
I wrote ATF about this a decade ago and they agree the FAQ is wrong but they have no desire to fix it.
 
dogtown tom said:
This FAQ answer while mostly correct has one glaring error.....in red.
The only time a common carrier is required to be notified is when shipping interstate from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee....which is illegal to begin with.
I wrote ATF about this a decade ago and they agree the FAQ is wrong but they have no desire to fix it.
Click to expand...

Well, despite by best intentions I learned something new today. Thanks.

"478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.
 
Thanks for the responses. Figured maybe I missed something in FL law or federal law. Turns out I missed something, but not what I thought.

I just moved to a new area and figured I would try someone around here.

I had a similar discussion with a FFL in Fort Lauderdale years ago who didn't like accepting transfers from private parties and just fricking told me so. I did a lot of business with him, not just transfers.

I can't stand doing business with someone who BSes me right out of the gate. I don't have high moral standards, but I have to wonder what else he thinks he can pull on me.
 
dogtown tom said:
This FAQ answer while mostly correct has one glaring error.....in red.
The only time a common carrier is required to be notified is when shipping interstate from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee....which is illegal to begin with.
I wrote ATF about this a decade ago and they agree the FAQ is wrong but they have no desire to fix it.
Click to expand...
Just to be sure I understand you correctly, you're saying it's legal, at the Federal level, for a non licensee to ship a handgun via Fedex or UPS to an FFL in another state without telling the carrier that the shipment contains a firearm? Love to see some documentation on this. Everything I can find is basically just a repeat of the ATF regs.
 
bearcreek said:
Just to be sure I understand you correctly, you're saying it's legal, at the Federal level, for a non licensee to ship a handgun via Fedex or UPS to an FFL in another state without telling the carrier that the shipment contains a firearm? .
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's legal. Post #9 is the actual cite from ATF regs.
"478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.



Love to see some documentation on this. Everything I can find is basically just a repeat of the ATF regs
Click to expand...
Well, ATF is the authority on what is legal.;)

But it doesn't really matter because neither FedEx or UPS accept firearm shipments from nonlicensees.
 
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dogtown tom said:
But it doesn't really matter because neither FedEx or UPS accept firearm shipments from nonlicensees.
Click to expand...
Given that it's legal and that we're not required to inform them that the shipment is a firearm, is there any reason for us to care about their policy, other than insurance claim concerns?
 
The reason that FFL's don't want to receive gun shipments from non-FFL's is the difficulty in shipping the gun back, if something goes wrong. (They would have to find another FFL in the shipper's state.) This has nothing to do with legality.

In my area, I would say that about half the FFL's won't accept such shipments, and the other half will. Ascertaining which is which is a problem when arranging GunBroker deliveries.
 
bearcreek said:
Given that it's legal and that we're not required to inform them that the shipment is a firearm, is there any reason for us to care about their policy, other than insurance claim concerns?
Click to expand...
FedEx has written that they may seize and hold any shipment that violates their policy.
 
dogtown tom said:
FedEx has written that they may seize and hold any shipment that violates their policy.
Click to expand...
So...use UPS? Can Fedex seize private property like that when the owner isn't violating any laws?

If they can legally seize property, what do they do with it?
 
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AlexanderA said:
The reason that FFL's don't want to receive gun shipments from non-FFL's is the difficulty in shipping the gun back, if something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
Difficulty? It ain't difficult. It's easy, but I'm not paying to ship it back. I'll sit on it.
Something going wrong? Like? No seller ID? No problem, again, I'll sit on it until the seller sends me a copy of their ID.

The reason many FFL's don't like to receive from nonlicensees is twofold, nonlicensees are more likely to ship me a gun without any information about the transferee or the seller.
As federal law requires me to record the identity of the person who shipped the gun, I require a copy of their drivers license to be enclosed with the firearm. Didn't include it? Then I won't transfer the gun to the buyer until I get it.

Second is not including any information whatsoever on the buyer. No name, no phone number and no dealer likes seeing "UPS Store #54321 as the return address on the box. That gun will sit until someone asks "where's my gun?" ......this is why buyers always need to tell their dealer about incoming transfers.




(They would have to find another FFL in the shipper's state.) This has nothing to do with legality.
Click to expand...
Finding a dealer in any state is darn easy. But shipping it back will be on your dime, not mine.

In my area, I would say that about half the FFL's won't accept such shipments, and the other half will. Ascertaining which is which is a problem when arranging GunBroker deliveries.
Click to expand...
You would be surprised how many guns I get for a buyer who I've never spoken to, never met, he just picked me off GunBroker or off the sellers website.
The gun arrives and there's no info other than "For Edwin Weinstein" ......:cuss: If by chance the seller included their info and I can call them to ask who is this person I get "Oh, he says he met you two years ago at a gun show" or "He said he knows you".:rofl:
 
bearcreek said:
So...use UPS?
Click to expand...
No. UPS has the same policy. FFL's only and the FFL must be enrolled in their shipping program.



Can Fedex seize private property like that when the owner isn't violating any laws?
Click to expand...
A carrier has no duty to continue the shipment of your item when that item is prohibited and violates their terms of service.
Their company, their rules.
 
dogtown tom said:
No. UPS has the same policy. FFL's only and the FFL must be enrolled in their shipping program.




A carrier has no duty to continue the shipment of your item when that item is prohibited and violates their terms of service.
Their company, their rules.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I was editing my post as you were replying. I guess I would have thought there was a difference between "seizing" property (which to me implies that they take possession away from the owner) and not continuing shipment. What do they do with the property once it's "seized"?
 
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