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Illegally altered Glock mags?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Beren, Dec 30, 2002.

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  1. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    Need some advice:

    Recently I purchased what I thought, and the dealer (owner of a local gunshop) assured me, were pre-ban full capacity Glock magazines. The backs of the magazines were oddly scuffed along almost their entire length. At the time I noted it was very unusual but it didn't set off any clear alarms.

    After inspecting the magazines more closely, it appears that someone sanded out the 'LE use only' stamp and roughed up the rest of the back to try and conceal the alteration.

    What should I do?

    I have stopped carrying the magazines. They're locked up and will stay that way until I make a decision as to what I should do next.

    Currently, my course of action appears to be:

    1. Visit the dealer, voice my concern and show him the magazines. Request a full refund and return the magazines to him.

    If the dealer refuses:

    1. Remind him that selling post-ban magazines to non-LEO/FFLs is a federal offense, just as it is a federal offense for me to possess them. While the magazines are not clearly marked, the markings on the back makes me reasonable doubt their legitimacy.

    I don't want to make any ultimatums, nor do I want to be out all the cash I paid thinking these were legal magazines.
     
  2. KMKeller

    KMKeller Member

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    Photograph and document then go back to the dealer. Keep your wits about you and don't get angry if he expresses disinterest in doing what's right (refund). If he rejects the notion, then thank him and head over to the PD with documentation and receipts.
     
  3. G-Raptor

    G-Raptor Member

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    Your plan sounds right to me.

    Normally, I don't support ratting out gun dealers, but this guy didn't just forget to dot an "I" or cross a "T", he put you at risk. Maybe he didn't know, but that's unlikely.

    My guess is, if he knows that YOU know, you should get your money back in a hurry. Hopefully he won't try to pawn them off on the next unsuspecting guy.

    If you WANT to buy altered mags, that's one thing, you're accepting the risk. But selling them without disclosure is shady business.
     
  4. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster Member

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    That's that difference among people. I'd keep them, use them, say nothing. As my old sig line said, there are commands of the sovereign one does not accept. (Sun Tzu) I truly believe that. I guess that doesn't make me right?
     
  5. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    It's a personal choice. As much as I disagree with the current full-cap magazine laws, the risk (admittedly minimal for this particular offense) of losing my gun rights is not worth the gain of having an extra three rounds in my compact Glock.
     
  6. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    I wouldn't blame you if you kept them, but if the dealer knew of their condition sold them anyway that is wrong. He is putting other people at risk(legal risk, anyway) without their knowledge. Personally, I wouldn't snitch on him, but I would definitely let him know how I felt.

    If you do choose to retain the mags, understand what the consequences will be should you be discovered.

    "You pays your money; you takes your chances."
     
  7. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster Member

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    Exactly right, Beren. Everyone has different circumstances. BTW I'm glad you noticed I said "I would" and not "you should." :)
     
  8. *8*

    *8* Member

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    Hmm.. are you sure, you're not from the ATF? :p

    If you knowingly possess a post ban mag then you should get rid of it a.s.a.p.
     
  9. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    Re: Re: Illegally altered Glock mags?

    If I knew for sure that it was, I would get rid of it. Unfortunately, the markings are ambiguous, though enough to make me uncomfortable. I won't be able to get to the dealer's until tihs weekend (he lives an hour from me) but I will call his shop tomorrow and see what he says.
     
  10. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    If the dealer charged you anywhere near the going rate for the magazine, he should refund your money and smile while doing it. I've never had to 'rat out' a dealer and would find no pleasure in doing so however he knowingly or unknowingly broke the law. If unknowingly, he should be more than happy to refund your money, if knowingly, he and some guys in black suits need to have a talk.

    Either way, you should call right now and leave a message on his machine and get it taken care of on the next business day.
     
  11. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd be pissed if the dealer sold the post-ban LE magazines at a pre-ban magazine price. Fraud, pure and simple and certainly not worth any potential time with Bubba (why are big fat inmates called Bubba?). While I wouldn't call the ATF, I'd insist on a refund so I could buy real pre-bans with my money.
     
  12. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    But what would you do if the dealer refuses and tells you to get the hell out of his store? The dealer that knowingly sells illegal mags isn't probably going to rush to refund your money.
     
  13. Ian

    Ian Member

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    My first reaction was to suggest ignoring the law (it's misconceived, unconstitutional, and wrong anyway) and keeping the mags. But...

    The market value of an illegally sold LE mag is less than an identical legal preban mag, due to the penalties for possessing the LE one (and the fact that legal ones are still available). If you think the dealer knows what he sold you, you might give him the option of replacing them with prebans (or giving you our money back) or else refunding you a percentage of what you paid, to reflect the lower value of illegal mags.;)
     
  14. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    why couldnt you destroy the magazines, chalk it up to a loss, and anonymously report the dealer to the ATF?
    or do you REALLY think they will let you get away with unknowingly commiting a crime?
     
  15. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, I spoke with the dealer over the phone. He was very quiet while I explained why I needed to return the magazines. The earliest I can visit his store is Friday evening (depending on traffic) or Saturday. I expect that I'll receive a full refund, we'll see what happens.

    If the mags were clearly marked as LEO only, I would document, destroy (but retain the remains as evidence), give the store owner a chance to reimburse me, and file in small claims court if he failed to do so.
     
  16. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    Let me amend that. If they were clearly marked, I wouldn't have bought the darn things in the first place!
     
  17. Zander

    Zander member

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    Just out of curiosity, what did you pay per mag?
     
  18. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    It was in the mid-$80 range.
     
  19. triggertime

    triggertime Member

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    Ouch. LEO-only post-ban hi-cap Glock magazines run about $15. So by defacing the mag and selling it to you illegally, the dealer made upwards of $70. That smarts. I really hope you get your money back.
     
  20. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    cratz2 - if the dealer wanted to be nasty about it. I'd drop the matter and send it the ATF then. Let the government deal with him.

    The distinction is that I would allow the dealer to refund my money and I wouldn't say a word. Refusal would bring retaliation. He's a cheat who isn't going to get away with it.
     
  21. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster Member

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    Sheesh, am I slow or what? :D I've been looking at this as a political statement. The money paid for an LE magazine is definitely the crux of the matter. Glad you had some good advice here, Beren.
     
  22. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    If he wasn't so greedy, he could get away with it. You can buy replacement magazine bodies from Brownell. Using the replacement bodies and the official "Glock" parts, he could claim to be selling New Glock factory pre-ban hicaps and no one would know.
     
  23. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    Wouldn't the replacement bodies lack the Glock stamp on the back?
     
  24. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Yep, but most folks wouldn't know as long as the base had Glock on it.
     
  25. Triad

    Triad Member

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    From what I've seen at GlockTalk, those replacement bodies are just about worthless. Seems they are very poorly made.
     
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