Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Illinois Members; Constitutional Convention?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Jeff White, Jun 9, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,638
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    I've been thinking for a long time that this might be the only solution to our problems. A constitutional convention would give us the chance to remove the Subject to the police powers clause in our state RKBA and it most likely would be the only way (through changing how state senate districts are marked) to break the stranglehold Chicago has on the rest of the state.

    It's coming up on the ballot in November 2008. It could be a double edged sword, but I think it's our best chance to change things. Apparently the legislature thinks so too:
    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...5B8ADD190DB7D814862572F400118B19?OpenDocument
     
  2. Kentak

    Kentak Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,467
    Location:
    Ohio
    I've always heard that Constitutional Conventions are a risky venture. One might advocate having one to fine tune or "improve" RKBA, but there is no guarantee that the anti-gunners won't use the opportunity to get even more restrictions etched in constitutional stone. Not to mention, all the other issues that are thrown open to tinkering.

    As they say, be careful what you wish for.

    K
     
  3. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,638
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    Kentak,
    The only way that RKBA in the Illinois State Constitution could get worse is to eliminate it entirely. The clause about subject to the police power pretty much makes any restriction constitutional.

    Public attitudes have changed a lot since the last concon in 1970. All but two states have some form of concealed carry. The gun banners haven't been able to force any greater restrictions through the legislature in the last serveral years despite having a democratic majority in both chambers of the state house and an avowed anti as governor. I think we could only gain.

    Jeff
     
  4. ilbob

    ilbob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,434
    Location:
    Illinois
    You are a brave man Jeff.

    All kinds of mischief could happen at a CC.

    You could easily end up with some constitutionally driven funding system for all kinds of social programs that would basically be even worse sinkholes for tax money than they are now.

    You really want to see state and local tax rates decided by how much money the public employee unions and other leeches want to suck out of taxpayers?
     
  5. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,638
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    I don't see things getting any better with the current system. The democrats are hopelessly deadlocked between Chicago and the rest of the state, the governor wants to spend like Imelda Marcos in a new shoe store, and the republicans have marginalized themselves so they are insignificant.

    The state will be bankrupt soon, unable to borrow money to fund all the social programs the Chicago democrats want. I'd rather take my chances on a constitutional convention then sit back and watch the state self destruct.

    Jeff
     
  6. ilbob

    ilbob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,434
    Location:
    Illinois
    Maybe the self destruct idea is a better one. Might wake up the citizenry.

    You can bet your bottom dollar that if a CC was called, that Daley and his cronies will stuff it full of people who will rewrite the state constitution to his satisfaction.

    I don't know how delegates are selected, but the last CC was a disaster for Illinois. I can't imagine another one would improve things any.
     
  7. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    Messages:
    5,456
    Location:
    In the land of make believe.
    I like the idea. It sounds like an interesting approach to tackle some of the major issues in Illinois. I would definately support the idea.

    I find it interesting that the government may "shut down" if the budget issues are not resolved by July 1st. So if the government is not meeting their deadline, or honoring their social contract with the people (so to speak), shouldn't they be fired and a new state government installed?

    Either way I would like to see the RKBA rewritten in the Illinois State Constitution in a way that we are allowed to keep and bear arms without question.
     
  8. gc70

    gc70 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,995
    Location:
    North Carolina
    A new constitution can cause all sorts of mischief. Since the 'leaders' of state government are so pleased with the current constitution, that should say a lot about the desirability of change.
     
  9. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,385
    Location:
    Virden, IL
    It would be interesting to see. RKBA can't get any worse, as it essentially does not exist in the current wording. But everything else will be up for grabs as well! They could put in an inalienable civil right to high-speed trains and a minimum number of casino boats per town if they can find the votes.

    But as Jeff says, a real RKBA in the state constitution would wreak havoc on this state's gun laws.
     
  10. sctman800

    sctman800 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Messages:
    513
    Location:
    Westville, Ill.
    To me the most importaint question is how are the CC delegates chosen? If the selection process gives any weight to people like Daley and his boy the Gov I could see things getting worse with all kinds of social entitlements. Just concerning RKBA I also think things could not get any worse than that "subject to police power" wording. Jim.
     
  11. DKSuddeth

    DKSuddeth Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    777
    Location:
    Bedford, TX
    For Illinois, I think a concon would be the best thing for it. It would certainly clear the air once and for all and you could either retain the rkba or lose it. no more of the ambiguity.
     
  12. ilbob

    ilbob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,434
    Location:
    Illinois
    I am not even all that worried about the RTKBA. I doubt they would even change the wording any, since the current wording suits them quite well.

    You can bet any new constitution put in by the Daley machine would include at a minimum:

    - unrestricted abortion
    - gay marriage
    - unlimited taxes to support whatever money wasting schemes the politicians and their accomplices in the public employee unions want
    - support for illegals
    - mandatory unionism
    - increased social programs

    There is a long list of radical left wing ideas that could get into the state constitution.

    It will no more shutdown than the federal government shuts down when congress fails to come up with a budget. All that will happen is a few government offices that we didn't need in the first place will shut down for a day or two. The employees will be paid after the fact, so the only harm comes to us taxpayers.
     
  13. Hk91 Fan

    Hk91 Fan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Illinois
    I have to agree with Don and Jeff. This provision is an all encompassing green light for the restriction of RKBA. Fight it. Moreover, not even Dick Durbin will say that the 2nd does not apply. The wording can only get better or stay the same.

    We now have 6 counties openly opposing any new firearms regulation, and some saying they will ignore any new laws completely. The people are getting tired of Chicago forcing their anti-freedom agenda on the rest of the state. Fight it.
     
  14. CDignition

    CDignition Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Sarasota Florida
    you cant change the state constitution with voted in amendments?? Here in Florida we can, it seems to work well, but sometimes stupid ass things get voted for,lol..
     
  15. Rocketman56

    Rocketman56 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Wally World HQ (NW Arkansas)
    6 counties opposing??

    Can someone point me at which counties?? I know of Pike and Brown, but
    I was not aware of the others..

    viva la revolution!! :D

    Part of the reason I'm interested is that we are looking at property
    north of the St. Louis Metro Area.. (Time to leave Wally World behind!!)
    (Also, looking at Central and Northeastern Missouri..)

    THANKS!
    Steve
     
  16. eric_t12

    eric_t12 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    SD
    I'm more in favor of changing through amending the current.

    I'm definately in favor of illinois changing SOMETHING, because did you read that quote from that one D-Representative?

    Dangerous for the general assembly? what about dangers to the rights of the people, or how their lives will be affected? maybe it was just poor word choice, but that's how i read into THAT one...
     
  17. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,959
    So if I'm reading this right they voted 48-47 to put a nonbinding referendum on the ballot asking if a constitutional convention should be held? Assuming the referendum passed, we're going to get 3/5th of the members of the assembly to vote for actually having it and not just voting to allow the public to voice their opinion? I'm skeptical to say the least but maybe I've missed something.

    You can, but if you can't pass a bill what are the odds that you can pass the amendment?

    If only :D
     
  18. lee n. field

    lee n. field Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,732
    So how do we keep Daley and his thralls and vassals from dominating the convention, and writing it the way they want?
     
  19. CDignition

    CDignition Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Sarasota Florida

    Well, here in Florida, it is a Public vote, not done by Lawmakers. This is where Grassroots pays off...Lawmakers don't do what you want, theres another avenue.
     
  20. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,638
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    Soybomb said;
    Yes, you missed the part about the vote on the concon already being on the ballot in Nov 08. The non-binding resolution is urging the citizens to vote for having the constitutional convention.

    What the legislature is saying is that they are spineless politicians and we aren't statesmen enough to handle the tough decisions, so why don't you citizens change the constitution so that we don't have to deal with the tough decisions and we can continue to be spineless politicians and keep our $62,500 a year part time phony baloney jobs and kiss babies and inflate our egos by telling ourselves how popular we are.

    I don't know how the delegates would be chosen. But I'm not as concerned as some of you about there suddenly being a constitutional right to medicade if your family income was less then $95,000 or a right to free higher education up through PHD. I think that we are more likely to end up with some actual constitutional limits on government and spending like they have in other states.

    The current budget impasse is a great example. The governor wants to spend like a drunken sailor on leave in Hong Kong on payday but the legislature knows the economy in the state won't support it. But they are so beholden to their socialist base that they can't come out and tell the emperor he left his clothes in the closet this morning. They so want to be a socialist state, but somewhere in the back of their little pea brains, basic economics is nagging at them. So what are they doing, they are saying save us from ourselves. We aren't able to speak the truth because the special interest groups that elected us will drop us like a live grenade and elect someone else, then all the graft money and good salary for a part time job will stop and, oh my we might actually have to produce something to maintain our standard of living and quite frankly, few of us are capable of doing that in the real world, so give us the out by having a constitutional convention and making it against the law for us to do what our base is demanding.

    It's the new way of politics in America. Constitutional conventions and commissions to make all the hard decisions so the political class doesn't have to face the fall out from them.

    Jeff
     
  21. Cellar Dweller

    Cellar Dweller Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Apparently not far enough outside Emperor Daley's
    I once read that Illinois has the greatest # of taxing authorities of any state, and was roughly equal to states 3-5 combined, but I can't find the cite. Bureaucrats are running the asylum, financed by the promises from legislators.

    How about redrawing the county boundaries by population with no increase in the number of counties? Cook would then be marginalized, and the tax burden would be a bit more equalized. 102 counties, 12.4-12.8 million population, about 123k per county...Cook would be splintered into ~42 counties by itself! The 41 redrawn counties, of course, would have none of the Chicago socialists in power, nor would they have Chicago socialist programs in place...yet. Progress could be made at the ballot box. The "new" Cook would collapse instantly - I propose that it centers on Bridgeport. :evil:
     
  22. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,755
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    IMNSHO, Constitutional Conventions make Constitutions less Constitutional (pardon the alliteration).

    Constitutional Conventions should be held in once, everything carved in stone and that's that (be they state or national).

    Once you decide every few years to start tinkering with the basic laws of the state you cease to be a "State of Laws" and you become a "State of Men" because the solidity of the law is not guaranteed.

    Yeah, it could be made to work in the favor of RKBA, but it seems to be a bad idea overall. Makes politicritters think in terms of changing the Constitution at the next convention instead of learning to live within its restrictions.
     
  23. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,385
    Location:
    Virden, IL
  24. Rocketman56

    Rocketman56 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Wally World HQ (NW Arkansas)
    congressional maps..

    Lord almighty.. Who draws such crazy contours!!!!!! :what: Sigh..
    Steve
     
  25. Nanook

    Nanook Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    733
    Location:
    NOT far enough from Chicago
    While at first glance it seems like the only way to concealed carry, it didn't work out so well in '68 did it?

    And this current Daley is even more entrenched than his father. If only the Feds would do something right for once and lock this little fascist up. It would make me so happy, and would take the pressure off of gun owners in this state.

    Now, the way it stands, he's probably grooming his son, you know, the batsman, to take his place. Enough already.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page