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I'm in DENYal too

Discussion in 'Legal' started by bikemutt, Feb 9, 2011.

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  1. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    Guess it had to happen sooner or later, the dreaded DENY.

    Considering I was proceeded just 10 days prior and 35 days prior to that, for handguns, someone made a mistake since I have a clean record and have committed no crimes, not even a parking ticket. I do have a current CPL.

    The dealer provided me the brochure with the NTN. Then he tells me some things that just don't sound right. First he says I should call the local city PD since they are probably the ones who denied. Then he says to call the county next, then the State Patrol, then NICS. I'm doing a ***? since I have no idea. Finally one of the counter guys tells him it was called in, so then he says forget it, just call NICS.

    So I call NICS and the automation says they don't give out info over the phone, need to email, fax or mail full name, address and NTN. So I emailed it to a_nics@leo.gov.

    Questions for anyone else who's been through this: does emailing NICS actually work? How long before they tell me what's up?

    What sucks is this was a straight-across trade, I don't want to pay a 15% restock for a $0 transaction. So the trade sits in the dealer's safe doing neither of us any good. He did say if I don't want to mess with an appeal we can kill the transaction, begs the question though, will he give back the trade to a guy who got denied?

    :(
     
  2. browneu

    browneu Member

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    Wow that is a sticky situation. The good thing is 15% of 0 is a 0 restocking fee. :p

    I'm sorry about your situation. I would also fax the information to try to get the information back quickly.
     
  3. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    I drilled down through NICS automated voice mail just now and found out the appeals process is now taking, on average, 174 days. What a cluster.

    Guess I'll wait to see what the reason they denied me is, which they are supposed to handle within 5 days, then just kill the deal.

    Crazy.
     
  4. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    The NICS brochures states several times that the request must be in writing....and email/snail mail/fax will all work.


    Nope. It's on his books so a 4473 & NICS would be required.
     
  5. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    If you were accused of murder you would not have to prove your innocents, the state would have to prove you guilty. How is it that the burden of proof falls on an individual who is trying to exercize a constitutional right in buying arms, the one and only item that the constitution guarantees you the right to posess?
     
  6. calaverasslim

    calaverasslim Member

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    What is the pits is the person who was denied won't get his gun back cuz the dealer need the guy to fill out a 4473 and then he will be denied again.
     
  7. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    I realize hope is not a strategy, but, my hope is this deny is not the start of a trend, just as my last 10 proceeds have proven not to be a trend, at least not a real long one.

    I need to wait and see what the stated reason is. Thinking back on the sale, the salesman was having a bad day all around, seemed detached and error prone, for all I know he told NICS my name is John Hinckley.
     
  8. scrood?

    scrood? Member

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    Thats one thing I like about my state, we have a permit. I only get NICS once every 3 years. I renew my card plenty in advance just in case. If I decide to purchase, I make sure I am not in between cards.
     
  9. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    I heard there's a similar measure on the table here in WA, it would be nice not have to deal with NICS but once every 5 years.

    Anyway, stopped by the gun store today and asked if he felt like waiting possibly 170+ days for this appeal. He went and talked to the boss and said it's really important to follow though on the appeal or run the risk of being in felonious possession, have to give all my guns etc. He say they don't care how long it takes, they will hold the guns until it's resolved. Last, he says I should go to state patrol and have them run a check on me just in case, which I did, clean.

    I'm beginning to see the benefit of FTF, private sales.
     
  10. browneu

    browneu Member

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    I would like to commend your FFL for being willing to work with you on this. Sounds like he is a great business owner.
     
  11. scrood?

    scrood? Member

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    someone needs To organize a class action against nics.
     
  12. DenaliPark

    DenaliPark member

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    Because the 2nd was usurped long, long ago. It was totally usurped when they passed Brady. Just remember, a denial can happen at any time, to anyone! When the government, must first give you its permission before allowing you to do a thing, well that isn't a right, thats a privilege, which are easily given, and easily taken away...
     
  13. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    Needless to say I totally agree.
     
  14. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    I'll be having a consultation with a 2A attorney in the next few days. As much as it galls me to have to pay one to be certain I don't step in legal cow pie, I'm not going to allow my ignorance to make a felon out of me.
     
  15. Linda

    Linda Member

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    I wonder if the person calling it in, accidently gave some wrong info such as wrong social, state born, etc?
     
  16. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    That's my hope Linda.

    If this were my first transfer after a long time, or ever, I'd have no idea why they would deny me. Since they last proceeded me just over a week prior to this deny, and nothing has happened to change my legal status, a case of mistaken identity or inability to identify me seems plausible.
     
  17. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    Quick update: The problem appears to be my name being associated with an alias for some guy with a rap sheet that goes from here to Toledo. I've asked legal council to assist in getting it cleared up. I'm still puzzled how they figured I was OK on Monday and not OK on Friday but that's how it goes sometimes I guess.
     
  18. browneu

    browneu Member

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    That's good to hear. Thank you for the update.
     
  19. langenc

    langenc Member

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    I'm beginning to see the benefit of FTF, private sales.

    I believe that is backwards--

    You should be seeing the hazard of the NICS and -registration.
     
  20. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    Quite right langenc. Still, I'm going to see this one through to the end, when I'll leave the store with the pistol, unless of course I expire from old age in the mean time.
     
  21. btg3

    btg3 Member

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    Kudos for your persistence and patience. Hope the desired outcome is soon realized.
     
  22. xcgates

    xcgates Member

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    After seeing a few threads on appeals, I decided to see if I could find any info on a mandated response time for the appeal. As in similar to the delay, where if they don't resolve in 'X' days, they default to proceed.

    This is one of my several likely "politically incorrect" situations in this country where the wheels of justice sure seem to be leading by the backsides of bureaucrats/politicians. Like I've ever cared about saying things politically incorrect.
     
  23. vaherder

    vaherder Member

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    Class action lawsuit- Really. Find a lawyer who will handle it. Who is going to pay the lawyers? This isnt a defective hip replacement case.

    FBI and DOJ have other budget priorities and with the FBI its their wonderful SAs. Have to fight crime and terrorism. Background checks to purchase firearms are very low on the priority list. A denial is even lower on the priority list. The way the FBI and DOJ looks at it is chances are good its keeping a firearm out of the hands of criminal and if its a mix up etc the poor tax payer is going to have to wait and wait. Priority and funding goes to clearing the most checks and not to the small percentage of denials.

    The poor civil servants handling denials and appeals are probably overwhelmed with a 6mo backlog and since Comrade Barry said no pay raises for the next two years, certain tea party Nazis want to furlough them for 10 days w/o pay, give them no pay raises for 5 years, 86 their step increases and performance bonuses and there is still a chance of a govt shutdown I am sure their morale sucks. Wouldnt yours? And the best part is their big boss is probably a Special Agent who got the job because he/she screwed up royally. You dont put your best in charge of this operation.

    Did our application include your SSN etc?

    VA herder
     
  24. xcgates

    xcgates Member

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    ACK! Guess I should read what I post more carefully.

    I meant to ask, is there a time restriction on the appeal process? Similar to the delay, where if it doesn't get finished in X amount of time, it defaults to proceed?

    (I said I went looking for it, didn't say that I failed miserably with getting any results.)
     
  25. vaherder

    vaherder Member

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    Why would it default to a proceed? Think about it. Imagine the MSM going nuts along with anti 2As if a default went to a proceed and a felon used the handgun and offed a couple dozen folks.

    FBI and DOJ's thinking is the denial and appeal process is keeping the guns out of the hands of a possible criminal. They are not thinking some poor schmo has the same name as a felon and poor guy is going to have to wait for 6mo to a year to get his gun.

    When they report this info to Congress the most important stat is we processed
    however many million checks and 96+% or whatever were favorable in less then 72hrs or whatever the law says. Denials and appeals are a paragraph on the last page. No one cares how long the appeals process takes as long as there is an appeals process.

    va herder
     
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