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Im thinking of downgrading from 45ACP to 40S&W...

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by JLStorm, Aug 18, 2007.

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  1. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    Well here is the deal I have 2 main carry pistols one is a full size one is a compact and I am thinking of adding a mid size pistol to the mix for those days that I dont want the big boy and dont need such deep concealment as a sub compact. My full size is a 45acp HK USP that holds 12 rounds and is pretty comfortable to carry other than its weight. My sub compact is a 40S&W HK P2000SK. I will be getting something to fill the gap in size, for a few different reasons none of which are really important for this conversation.

    Now, I never thought I would say this, but I am thinking of going with another 40S&W because its lighter weight and getting much cheaper to shoot factory carry ammo especially with the 27% increase federal and CCI plan by 2008. I only have one arm for a number of months due to a serious injury, and I may consider reloading plinking ammo after I am better, but even so the price of 45 is still higher, and I wont be reloading carry ammo.

    So anyway, I will still train with my .45 and I will carry it when I want my full size, but I will shoot more and plink with the .40's. I will also use the .40's for competitions and training classes where thousands of rounds are required because it saves money in ammo and will allow me to train with the sizes of pistols I tend to carry more often lately.

    Now, I KNOW Im going to get all the 1911 fanatics telling me how you carry a full size daily and it works for you. I have several 1911's and I do not carry them anymore due to personal choice, please dont try to convert me in this conversation.
     
  2. Bilt4Comfort

    Bilt4Comfort Member

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    Is there a question in there somewhere?
     
  3. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    LOL, ya...I didnt state it very well though I guess.

    I am having trouble with the thought of going from 45 to 40 because I feel 45 is a better man stopper, but I can afford train more and carry 40 more comfortably. I also shoot 40 better one handed which I will have to do for a number of months. When I carry a 40 now, I dont feel under gunned, but I have carried 45acp for years and it certainly has superior ballistics, but like I said, Im going to be able to train with .40 more, especially considering some of these training classes require 2500 rounds of ammo, especially once these forcasted price increases come into effect.
     
  4. Kimber1911_06238

    Kimber1911_06238 Member

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    you aren't giving up much if anything by going from .45 to .40 S&W. don't worry about it, choose the pistol that you want
     
  5. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    In a gunfight you won't be thinking about what caliber you have, you'll be thinking "Hit! Hit! Please hit!!!" If you shoot .40 about as well, just get one and enjoy it. We worry too much about things, in the end we have much less control than we would like to think. I have a .45, had a .40, wouldn't feel undergunned either way.

    gp911
     
  6. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    I carry the Taurus PT145 Mil Pro (3rd Gen) in 45ACP but a 40 would be a good choice too. Get what you can stay proficient with. I reload my practice ammo on a Lee Classic Turret Press to keep cost down but CCI Brass Case 230gr FMJ ammo at Wally World is $10.97 for a box of 50rnds. I shoot that and reload the brass.
     
  7. boredelmo

    boredelmo member

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    As the THR saying goes, Go with what works for you. Seems like a .40 works better. Besides some good Ranger or Gold dots won't be lacking in power. And now most likely you'll have more rounds per gun.
     
  8. wally

    wally Member

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    I prefer the .40 in sub 4" barrel lengths for better penetration. I don't see enough difference in ammo costs between .45 & .40 to argue about beyond the "deals" in "police surplus" JHP which have been most common in .40S&W these past few years but seem to be drying up.

    Reloading .45 is a bit easier, but free or cheap .40 brass is easier to find.

    Its a wash, IMHO choose the gun first caliber second.

    --wally.
     
  9. briang2ad

    briang2ad Member

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    Guns in 40 seem to be more in terms of choice...

    and:

    Cheap brass
    Cheaper and more available deals on premium HPs
    Better deals on practice ammo. (Here $10 for 50 40, $13 for 45).
    More mag capacity
    Might get something easier to carry - BHP? (Nice and slim).
     
  10. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    If I go with the .40 Im getting a P2000 because its the same exact platform and lever controls as the p2000sk that I already carry, just in a larger package. This will make practicing with and switching between the guns much more seamless for me.
     
  11. michiganfan

    michiganfan Member

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    G23 everyday. 14 rounds and an extra 15 round mag make for 29 rounds in a reasonable weight
     
  12. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I still don't see a question? I prefer 40 S&W overall. My favorite 40 is the Glock 23.
     
  13. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    I own a P2000 and a P2000sk in .40 S&W. I traded my 1911 for them. I recommend the P2000 as it is an excellent platform for the .40 S&W, especially with the LEM trigger.
     
  14. kashton

    kashton Member

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    "Im thinking of downgrading from 45ACP to 40S&W..."


    -- wise choice
     
  15. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    I ''Downgraded'' several years ago. Have not looked back. No regrets. Sometimes I get the old .45s out and shoot them and then wonder why I didn't switch sooner.

    The .45ACP is a great round. So is the .40 S&W. You really can't go wrong with either.
     
  16. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    "Downgrading?"

    Dunno about that ...

    It's still just one of the common centerfire handgun calibers commonly used by LE for defensive purpose, as well as the non-LE public.

    I held off on owning a .40 S&W pistol for something like 10 years after the cartridge was introduced ... and that was after first shooting it in a G22 & G23 back in 1990. Interesting, but I was pretty much only interested in .45 ACP & 9mm pistols at that time. (The .45 by choice, in a personally-owned off-duty weapon; and the 9mm by requirement, in an issued weapon. ;) ) Not being required to carry a .40 S&W at that time, I had the luxury to hold off and see what the future revealed for the .40 S&W ...

    Sometime around the year 2000 I finally accepted that the .40 S&W had seemingly established itself in the LE field. A number of agencies, among them the CHP, had apparently received good service from the cartridge. It looked like we might be adopting .40 S&W weapons, so I thought I might look around for pistol that appealed to me in that caliber and try one ...

    Fast-forward to the present and I own 4 pistols chambered in .40 S&W ... :scrutiny: ... and I've since had occasion to carry a couple of issued pistols chambered in it, as well.

    I only own 4 pistols chambered in 9mm. Hmmm. Never expected to own that many of either 9mm or .40 S&W.

    I own 8 pistols chambered in .45 ACP, equaling the combined number I own in 9mm and .40 S&W. I've always enjoyed owning and shooting .45 ACP pistols. Started young.

    Oddly enough, I carry the 9mm most often off-duty, followed by .40 S&W ... and hardly ever carry one of my .45 pistols anymore. Sort of a reversal from when I was a much younger cop. :eek:

    I carried an issued full-size .45 for a while, but when a friend really wanted one of the new .45's, and we were between shipments, I turned mine in so it could be issued to him. It meant a lot to him to receive an issued .45, and what are friends for, anyway? I chose a compact .40 S&W as my issued weapon and was totally satisfied.

    Now, oddly enough, someone else whom I respect and have enjoyed working with (and for) for many years has decided he wants to carry a compact .40 S&W instead of a compact .45, but we're out-of-stock of the compact .40's for a while ... Sooooo, I'll be turning in my compact .40 so it can be issued to him, which really pleased him ... and I'll make do with his compact .45 ...

    I don't mind. It's just a handgun.

    So, bottom line? Obviously I don't have any answers.:neener:

    Go with what you consider is best for you and your actual and/or perceived needs.

    If it's a personally-owned pistol you only have to please yourself, after all.

    FWIW, I still rather miss my previously issued compact 9mm service weapon. If it were still an option I'd return to carrying an issued 9mm tomorrow ... (When it came right down to it I enjoyed the lighter recoil and controllability of the 9mm, even when using the issued RA9TA 127gr +P+ ammunition. ;) )

    On a more important note, I wish you well in your recovery. I've also previously been limited to the use of one arm because of a couple of injuries and required surgeries, which in my case were concurrent conditions. Lasted more than a year. It was my dominant hand/arm, too.

    Speedy recovery.

    Pick something interesting and useful to buy and shoot. Whether it's something similar or something different is up to you. ;)

    I can say that owning, and having been issued, weapons in all 3 of the 'common' major calibers has pretty much eliminated my concern regarding the relative differences between them. I don't much care to listen or become involved whenever folks start to become involved in passionate ... or simply strident ... debates or arguments about the 'superiority' of any of them.

    I don't really care which of the 3 calibers I may carry as issued weapons, and if I feel like carrying one off-duty, or shooting/practicing with one of them in particular, I simply can choose one from my working collection.

    Which doesn't at all begin to explain why my interest in revolvers has been reawakened in the last couple of years, and has resulted in me buying a couple of new J-frames in the last several months. :confused: (I own 4 J-frames, now, too. Must be a coincidence the number 4 keeps popping up. ;) )
     
  17. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

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    I'm still looking for the question too....... ya've already decided on make/model of gun and caliber so are ya just leetin us know ya are planning to get a P2000 in .40S&W? :)
     
  18. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    no if I decide to stick with the 45 I will wait for the HK45c to come out some time next year.
     
  19. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    I've said this many times on this forum and I'll say it again-

    When it comes to premium SD ammo, if you ever have to use your firearm in defense of your life and you don't make it through it will not be because you used a .45acp/9mm/.40sw instead of a 9mm/.40sw/.45acp. It will either be because one way or another you were unlucky or unprepared.

    You can't do much about your luck but you can most assuredly do something about "unprepared". If you can practice more with the .40sw then I say carry a .40sw.

    Also, for what its worth, substantially fewer will argue against the reliability of a HK than that of a 1911.
     
  20. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    JLStorm,
    How is carrying a .40 S&W a downgrade from a .45 ACP?

    Remington Golden Saber SD Ammo
    .40 S&W 180 gr 1015 FPS w/412 FT/LBS of energy
    .45 ACP 185 gr 1015 FPS w/423 FT/LBS of energy

    Of course with the .45 you can buy 230 gr rounds which aren't available for the .40 S&W in Factory ammo but you can also buy the .40 S&W in a 165 gr round which is rated @ 1150/485. You are giving up nothing if you're happy with a 180 gr bullet.
     
  21. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    If you've only got one arm for awhile, unless the remaining arm is a real good'un, you may want to consider going all the way down to 9mm. You don't lose all that much recoil impulse by going down to .40, and many people find the felt recoil of .40 much more unpleasant than .45, since you've got almost as powerful of a round, typically in a smaller, lighter gun.

    230 gr @ 850 fps = 0.87 lb-ft/sec recoil
    180 gr @ 1000 fps = 0.80 lb-ft/sec recoil
    147 gr @ 1000 fps = 0.65 lb-ft/sec recoil

    And of course, 9mm is even cheaper to shoot, and you can get a lighter gun without sacrificing controllability.

    Personally, I like .40 because it's very nearly as effective as .45 but with a higher mag capacity and/or slimmer grip, and I don't find the recoil objectionable at all. But you do definitely know that something's gone off when you fire it, whereas all of the .45s and 9mms I've fired have recoiled more like pointing the gun into a stiff breeze.
     
  22. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    The .40 looses more ftlbs of energy than the 45 as the distance increases, thats where I notice the 45 really shines. And as mentioned the recoil of the 45 is much more pleasant than the 40. Of course, the only 40 I have has a 3.27" barrel and weighs 1.4lbs and the 45s all have a 4.4" barrel or longer and weight substantially more. I can shoot the 40 one handed without an issues, as I have practiced this knowing that I was having some pretty extensive shoulder surgery. The real benefit the .40 has over the .45 is the weight, size, and cost of ammo which is very important to me for a carry gun. Plus the fact that I can consolidate most of my ammo to one caliber which will help in bulk ammo buys.

    I do plan on getting into reloading eventually, but I assume that .40 is still cheaper to shoot than 45 when reloading, especially considering that most of the price increases coming around in the next year are do to the recent and future increased costs of materials.
     
  23. Nameless_Hobo

    Nameless_Hobo Member

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    You're not giving up enough to worry about it.
     
  24. JLStorm

    JLStorm Member

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    The one thing I will miss is that nice slow rolling recoil of the 45, the 40 is less actual recoil, but it has a big snap and makes follow up shots more difficult.
     
  25. Nameless_Hobo

    Nameless_Hobo Member

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    Go with .45, if you like the recoil.
    I like .45, but, it's a pistolero's caliber. You have to be willing to pay to get good with it.
     
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