Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

IMR 4895/H4895, Can I Combine A Little?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Dapperdan, Jul 7, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dapperdan

    Dapperdan Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    46
    Hey folks, been loading for many years. I've been loading 223, my manuals call for the same charge for either of these powders, 24.0 grs. with 50 gr. bullets, so I've been buying whichever of these two powders I can find. Velocity difference in only 7 fps. So, I am left with less than 1/4 can of H4895, now back to using IMR, my question is, can I mix in this small amount of H4895 with the new jug of IMR? I'm an old fool, but not foolish enough to mix powders for rifles with powders for pistols, etc. I know in some calibers, there is a considerable difference in charge weights with these two powders, but not so for 223 Remington. Some people use other powders than this for 223, but this load is dead nuts accurate with Hornady V-Max bullets out of a Remington 700, groups you can cover with a dime at 100 yds. So, what say the reload gurus, safe, or not? Thank you for your time and have a good day!
     
  2. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    6,514
    Location:
    Mount Desert Island Maine
    I personally would not do it. I will not even mix a small amount of different lots of the same propellant with each other. I will just use up the amount I can for that last round or two with a trickler and scale. Just make a smaller run using the partial can and be done with it or you could save it for a different use. I am sure there will be others that will disagree but the manufacturers say not to for a reason, and that would be safety.:cool: If it was safe you would not be asking this question IMO. YMMV
     
  3. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,900
    Location:
    Nicholls,GA South Georgia
    Why not use it until it runs out then switch?
    I see no problems with getting a few grains of such close powders mixed together ... I would not want to mix half and half. If you are running max loads then I would think a lot more about it.

    Jimmy K
     
  4. USSR

    USSR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    8,582
    Location:
    Finger Lakes Region of NY
    I would not do it.

    Don
     
  5. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,452
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The only thing that is the same between these two powders is the name. They are completely different, made by two different companies on two different continents. Do not mix them together!
     
  6. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    15,710
    Location:
    Hot and Humid FL
    Unless you are a BR shooter looking for that .001 accuracy level, there is NO danger in doing this aspect at all

    Well the amounts would make me possibly consider it IF you're talking about 2-4oz of one being mixed into 8# of the other - that would dilute anything, and since they are almost identical, shouldn't be a big deal......Remember, powder makers blend powders all the time to get a desired result
     
  7. Gadzooks Mike

    Gadzooks Mike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    411
    I'd say drop a dime to Hodgdon and see what they say.
     
  8. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,976
    Location:
    West GA
    They don't burn at the same rate. I'm sure you could mix them and use your IMR load w/o any damage, but why would you want to do this? There is Zero chance that you'll get the two powders evenly blended, so there will be inconsistencies between cartridges.
     
  9. bigedp51

    bigedp51 member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    701
    Location:
    Pennsyltucky
    Dapperdan

    The last thing I would be doing is asking faceless strangers on the internet if its safe to mix powders. So the real question is who is going to be pulling the trigger "YOU" or the faceless strangers.

    H4895 is made in Australia by ADI and owned by a French company and goes by the name of AR2206H in Australia.

    IMR-4895 is made in Quebec Canada and is owned by General Dynamics weapons division.

    They are two distinctly different powders made by two different companies, on two different continents and only have a close burning rate when they are burned by themselves.

    In closing Dapperdan I would never mix Australian Fosters beer with Canadian Molson, it might just leave a bitter taste in your mouth.
     
  10. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    22,696
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    As you see everyone thinks isn't a bad idea including me. I'm curious as to why you would want to mix them in the first place? Like already said, just use the H4895 until it's gone and then move on to the IMR4895.
     
  11. jcwit

    jcwit Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,011
    Location:
    Great state of Indiana
    Depends on what chart one looks at. They are extremely close to being the same. I would use as much up as possible the mix the small amount left over, seriously doubt it would anything.
     
  12. Powderman

    Powderman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,626
    Location:
    Washington State
    If you check any reloading manual, you will find this printed as one of the steps in reloading safety:

    "NEVER mix different powders" or words to that effect.

    There is a reason for that warning.

    I don't care about the economics of the move--your safety and health are worth far more than that.

    Do not mix powders.

    EVER.
     
  13. jcwit

    jcwit Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,011
    Location:
    Great state of Indiana
    If you pay complete attention to all the cautions in reloading manuals you would never get any reloading done! The companies are protecting themselves from litigation.

    Don't believe it, start reading the cautionary lables on food and household products.

    A smidgen of IMR 4895 in a full bottle of H4895 mixed together is going to be of no consequense. Remember these powders have similar burn rates and similar powder drops per the receipies.

    Its like 5 drops of whiskey in a full glass of coke and calling it a mixed drink.
     
  14. jacksgd

    jacksgd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    38
    I have to ask Why you would even want to do it?

    The most powder you would be losing would be 23.9 grn. or about 7 cents worth.
     
  15. Gadzooks Mike

    Gadzooks Mike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    411
    Well, not exactly EVERYONE. Anyway, I just wrote to Hodgdon and I'll post their answer when I get it.
     
  16. Asherdan

    Asherdan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    Location:
    Hoss Country /USA
    Why screw around so much with the mixing and the emails and such? You have a load for each and there's little difference. Load up all the H4198 and label it, whatever you have left that's less than 24 grains, go fertilize a lemon tree. Shoot 'em up when you get around to it.

    You get the same end result without all the dinking around, you have ammo and your extra powder's used up. Why jump through extra hoops?

    So, no. I wouldn't mix the two. It's like buying a headache, who needs it?
     
  17. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,976
    Location:
    West GA
    If Hodgdon says it's OK to mix, I would be shocked! (see post 13).
     
  18. Dapperdan

    Dapperdan Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    46
    Thanks for the kind replies, people. Right now, I'm leaning towards NO. Although I'm using IMR now, I'll eventually be back around to H, so I think I'll save it and add to the next jug of H, or use it for fertilizer. It's just that I'm a cheapo, but I can't see risking a disaster for a few cents worth of powder. I WILL be surprised if Hodgden says it's OK, also! Thanks again for your time, just wanted to get a other opinions, which I knew I could get here. Good day, all.
     
  19. jcwit

    jcwit Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,011
    Location:
    Great state of Indiana
    And why? To make their legal dept happy is why.

    Remember, small paks of Planters Peanuts state on the back as a cautionary note that they contain PEANUTS!

    You are in no danger of a disaster.
     
  20. bigedp51

    bigedp51 member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    701
    Location:
    Pennsyltucky

    I love these forums, anyone with a computer and two fingers can write anything they want, the problem is these same people do not have any pressure measuring equipment and are just guessing.

    This is like the advice people give out in forums that it is OK to grease and lube your ammo and it wont hurt anything.

    oil-lube.gif

    Bisquick and Aunt Jemima pancake mix are similar but I don't make biscuits using Aunt Jemima pancake mix. :banghead:

    On the Hogdons burn rate chart:
    87. Hodgdon H4895
    88. VihtaVuori N530
    89. IMR, Co IMR 4895

    Gee I wonder why we don't mix all three powder together, I know lets change the name of VihtaVuori N530 to V4895 and start mixing.

    Popcorn Turkey stuffing recipe
    "Mix" one cup of popcorn with 3 cups of bread crums.
    1 cup chopped onion
    1 cup chopped celery
    1 tablespoon vegetable oil
    2 whole eggs, beaten
    Bake at 400 degrees F until turkey is golden brown or popcorn blows a$$ off turkey. :eek:

    4895.gif
     
  21. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,424
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    Do Not Mix- As Steve4102 said ...................

    The only thing that is the same between these two powders is the name. They are completely different, made by two different companies on two different continents. Do not mix them together!
     
  22. Mal H

    Mal H Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    17,462
    Location:
    Somewhere in the woods of Northern VA
    Dapperdan - you haven't said as far as I can tell - how big are these cans/jugs you're talking about? Actually, 1/4th of a can of any normal size is an appreciable amount of powder.

    Even so, I tend to agree with oneounceload and jcwit with regard to those two powders. Sometimes folks seem to envision an atomic bomb when things aren't done precisely according to Hoyle.

    If you do mix them (and I'd wait until you have a lot less than 1/4 of the mystery can), you still have to follow the age-old reloading rule to back off 10% and work up again. That alone should discourage you from actually doing it. Although, on the other hand, you should do the back-off routine when you change from one powder to the other anyway.
     
  23. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,424
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    Do this test. Set up your powder measure for IMR, get an average reading of weight. With the same setting on the measure, change powders. When dropping the powders by voliume, what is the weight difference between brands??? :D
     
  24. Gadzooks Mike

    Gadzooks Mike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    411
    bigedp51 - not sure what you're getting at with the chart - PSI does not equal CUP? You're right. Using this formula PSI= -17,902 + 1.516 x CUP, 38,300CUP is approximately 40,160PSI.

    Blowing up turkeys with popcorn and greasing your ammo? Real High Road, that.

    243winxb - The answer to your question is the weight difference would be zero. The VMD for IMR4895 is .0728. THe VMD for H4895 is .0728.

    jcwit is 100% correct -
     
  25. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    15,710
    Location:
    Hot and Humid FL
    Nice chart biged - except we weren't talking about mixing on a 1:1 ratio

    You never mixed different gasolines in your car tank or can for the lawnmower? Never mixed a few tablespoons of leftover cereal of one type from one box to the new box?

    Looks like a whole lot of folks are so worried about not a lot, especially not even wanting to blend the same type of powder.

    We are not talking about blending Bullseye with IMR 7828, and a few grains of one type blended and diluted with a whole big jug of another is not going to create an A bomb
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page