"In a world without guns...

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Green Lantern

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...a 200-pound rapist can have his way with any 100-pound woman he wants."

That's about all I have at the moment, but I'm sure there are other examples out there. Of course, the idea that all guns will just disappear with the "right" legislation is hogwash anyway. I was just trying to think of a number of arguments where I can lure the antis (and those who aren't necessarily, but are falling into the kneejerk reaction mode over recent events) in with what they think would be IDEAL- only to hit them with the stark reality that it would be anything but.

Maybe references to past events where armed governments freely massacred an unarmed populace? References to the UK being unarmed in the face of German invasion?

References to being the last stand against tyranny may not be effective at all with the intended audience, though...
 
"the young/strong will have free rein to prey on the old, weak and infirm"
 
Don't be vague when real numbers from DOJ exist as well as credible studies.

There are roughly 300,000,000 million firearms in the U.S.

Each year there are roughly 25,000 to 30,000 firearms related deaths each year (crime, police, suicide, accident and self defense). That means over 99.99% of those firearms kill no one each year.

Studies by the DOJ, CDC, and various universities indicate that there are 800,000 to 1,300,000 times each year firearms are used to stop a violent attack. That means that a firearm is anywhere from 26 to 45 times as likely to save a life as take a life each and every year.

When arguing with antis use facts that you can show the authoritative sources for.

Point out that those firearms used by the disturbed young men in mass shootings didn't go out and carry out those heinous crimes. The young men that picked them up and used them had warning signs that others didn't take seriously. Parents, schools, friends, neighbors and/or therapists make statements that they were concerned about them. Holms in CO was being seen by a UCo doctor who thought he was so dangerous that she alerted the university. Loughner in AZ had been expelled from college because of his behavior and was required to get a mental health evaluation before he could return. Kazmierczak had been institutionalized by his parents, but did well in college before he broke again. Cho at VaTech had been determined to be mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, but instead of being institutionalized was allowed outpatient treatment. These young men needed to be treated and the threat to themselves and others managed, but they did not get the help they needed and were not put where they would not be a danger to others. Instead their conditions were neglected and they killed scores of people that would have otherwise lived to lead happy lives if their murderers had been separated from society while being treated.

The root cause of these mass shootings is the failure to treat and manage dangerously mentally ill young men. The rest of us don't need to be treated as if we are dangerously mentally ill because less than a hundred millionth of the population in this country were criminally insane and hadn't been given the help they needed.

Never trivialize the deaths in these events, but we can't forget that 5 of these events have occurred in 2012. 5 people out of 300 million people perpetrated these crimes. 5 out of 300,000,000. That's 0.00000017% of the population. A number so small that it is buried in the statistical fluctuation of counting population in this country. Looking at the total deaths, excluding the murderer, 47 out of 300,000,000 people in the U.S. were murdered this year in inexplicable mass shootings. That's 0.0000016% of the population. Tragic events, but, again, so few to be within statistical fluctuations for population in the U.S.

The rest of us don't need to be treated as if we are dangerously mentally ill because less than a hundred millionth of the population in this country were criminally insane and hadn't been given the help they needed.

We won't get anywhere insisting that nothing be done this time, but we might get what everyone needs if the firearms community insists that the dangerously mentally ill be effectively denied access to the public.
 
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I'm beginning to thinking we need to manage the mentally ill. and not therapeutically. but maybe I'm just p@@@ off right now
 
2A Folder

I have a folder labeled as '2A' in the memory thingy of this computer. HSO's post has been 'bookmarked' and placed in that folder. No rant or emotion tugs on a heartstring, just facts that seem to come from an untainted source.

Thanks.
 
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