In Light of the Recent Shootings....

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Armored farmer, Nov 6, 2017.

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  1. Sauer Grapes

    Sauer Grapes Member

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    I don't think anyone here is living in ''fear'', I just like having extra bullets with me.....:)
     
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  2. freyasman

    freyasman Member

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    I actually carry 2 spare 15rd mags but that has more to do with some bad experiences I had in combat than any objective reasoning that I might actually need them for a civilian defensive gun use. You can make a good case for carrying one spare mag in case the one in your pistol malfunctions, and if your carrying a 5 or 6 shot revolver I would want a reload, even though it's highly unlikely that you're ever going to use them, but if you're carrying a modern semi-auto, especially a double stack, it's just not likely you're going to shoot your gun dry.
    My advice to most people when this comes up, is to carry one spare.... when they ask why I carry 2, I just tell them that's my trauma drama, not their's. They don't need to worry about it. ;)
     
  3. BSA1

    BSA1 member

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    As Sam said, I've never heard an argument for a realistic scenario in which, "run to my truck and get my AR" was the appropriate response.


    Well you have now two;

    The citizen with the gun that shot the church shooter could have just as easily got his gun from his truck. The driver of the truck might have had a gun in his truck also.

    Just heard a developing report of a shooter in Austin, Texas shooting at vehicles on Interstate I-35. Trapped in traffic with someone taking shots a handgun is likely to be found wanting in this type of situation. That AR in your truck or trunk will be most likely be much more useful and a heck of a lot more comforting. (I'll load mine with M855 ammunition please).

    In rural America it is common for guns to be kept in vehicles. Especially with ranchers and cowboys for quick use on predator control. There is a big disconnect between the urban THR members and rural, small town THR members. (Austin is small by Texas standards). lol
     
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  4. Resist Evil

    Resist Evil Member

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    I still carry the same handguns I usually carry. I live in the Denver Metro area with a constant influx of lib/progs from cesspool states like California, Illinois, Massachusetts, etc. Most violent crimes are committed by unAmericans--lib/progs and criminal foreigners, and as the density of them increases here, the odds that I will be a victim of violence correspondingly increases. I always carry wherever there are no metal detectors. So does my wife. You know, we've had church shooters here, too and I believe that with the presence of so many unAmericans, violence can happen anytime and anywhere.
     
  5. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Can you drop the snarky divisiveness?

    Is the same divisive bs the far left uses to successfully divide and defeat.

    Let's not help them or embrace their tactics, ok?
     
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  6. RAEIndustries

    RAEIndustries Member

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    So speaking of recent shootings and once thats almost conveniently not covered on the news like Obamas missing birth certificate....whatever happpend actually in Vegas?
     
  7. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Well #1 does not work because you are not going to leave your vehicle in traffic and "run to your truck."

    #2 is not an scenario.
     
  8. Warp

    Warp Member

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    No.

    Statistically insignificant to one individual I think, compared to 'background violence'.

    If the fact that a shooting might happen caused me to change my carry habits, that would simply mean that deep down I knew my carry habits were sub-standard and should be upped regardless.


    Though truth be told, I know I should always carry a spare magazine but I don't. I always carry a gun, a capable gun, but not always the spare mag.


    It does give me an excuse to come up with a way to somewhat secure a long gun in my car, but I'm not sure of a good or relatively convenient way of doing that, and the odds of being able to use it seem pretty small.
     
  9. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    ...and farmers.
     
  10. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    When I first got my CCW I had no intention to carry. I got it because waiting until I had a reason to carry right now when the process would take weeks seemed like a bad idea. So I got one figuring I would never need it just like the fire extinguishers I had around the house. When a felon got out of prison where he spent most of his life move in with his mom and started an ongoing criminal enterprise next door it was right there.
     
  11. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Yes, I see it on gun forums too.
    That rationalization implies that criminals / psychos are immobile, do not leave their area (which we know is incorrect).
    Goes hand & hand with daylight/dark "rationalization", apparently criminals/psychos are perceived as nocturnal (also incorrect).
    Sociopaths that are immobile & nocturnal = inaccurate rationalizations.
     
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  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Yeah. While it isn't impossible to come up with a situation where you might conceivably be able to engage a bad guy with a rifle that was stored in your car trunk, or even one where it might be possible you could get out of (or get TO) your car, open your trunk, get out your rifle, and engage a bad guy, and doing all of that would be more suitable than using the pistol that's on your hip, it does require some incredibly special and specific circumstances which come up in our society very, VERY rarely.

    And it is important to recognize that there are some negatives to overcome: Long guns carried out to cars and placed in trunks every day become quite a hassle. Guns of any sort (whether locked up or not) left in vehicles overnight, and/or always, are stolen quite often and that's somewhere between "a bummer" and "a REALLY BAD THING" depending on your point of view. Guns kept locked down in trunks have to be unlocked to use, thus adding a step to quickly engaging a lethal threat. Long guns cannot be kept loaded in a vehicle in some/many(?) states, thus adding a step to engaging a bad guy and/or requiring storing mags and being able to retrieve them quickly as well.

    All of these things are surmountable -- if you really want to. Is it reasonable and workable in the long term to deal with these drawbacks/negatives for the admittedly very small likelihood that you'd ever face a situation where you could and would go get that rifle instead of dealing with whatever it was with the pistol you carry on your person?

    I think what this boils down to is the phrase: "If you really want to." We like rifles. We like having them around. We like self-identifying as a rifleman, with his weapon handy, or at least nearby. Carrying an AED is vastly more likely to save lives than any gun we carry, especially that trunk rifle. But amazing medical tech gear like AEDs aren't our area of hobby and interest, so we don't bother. Wearing a hard-hat would be much more likely to prevent our own sudden deaths, but we'd consider anyone who'd do that every day to be a total weirdo. To some extent, it's more engaging to picture ourselves as a hero with a rifle than a hero with a medical kit, or defending ourselves with a firearm than with personal safety gear. (No negativity implied there, that's just how it is.)

    There's nothing wrong with that. It's a free country, at least sort of, in most places, and we can carry a rifle in our trunks if we want to.

    I personally believe there are very good reasons for trying to understand risks and odds in realistic terms and to only do things in reaction to those risks and odds if it is reasonable to do so.


    So... going back to the OP's question, "In light of recent shootings...", no. I don't think it is reasonable to change anything about my carry gear -- or even if and when I carry a firearm -- in light of those events. I'm certainly not putting a rifle in my vehicle BECAUSE of them.
     
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  13. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I haven't really changed anything. I've been meaning to pick up a spare mag for my carry gun to have with me.

    I already carry when I go to church. It is an obvious place where most people let their guard down and is normally easy pickings for a lunatic. In Arkansas you can carry in church with the minister's approval. I'm good friends with him, so I'm one of the few who have the green light.
    We will be able to carry in school soon, once the AR State Police come up with the enhanced training course required, so I'll of course do that as soon as it is a reality.
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Are you sure wearing a hard hat as EDC is much more likely to protect you? From what?
     
  15. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    Steel toe boots for me, but I still like most of Sam's post.
     
  16. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    From here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077742/
    Looking at the numbers, about 32 people die per day from being shot by someone else. Something around 153 die per day due to head trauma.

    What percentage of those 32 people killed by someone else with a gun each would have been saved if they'd have had a gun? Some of them, certainly -- though some of those are criminals, killed by the police, so that's a mixed message. And of that number, how many of them were in a situation where they weren't at home and were somewhere either in, or very near, their car where they could have stored a rifle?

    Of those who were shot and who could have saved themselves, how many of those would be anything where the situation would have been otherwise if they'd have had a rifle in their trunk as opposed to just a pistol on their hip? Whatever percentage it is, it's VERY low, clearly. None of us would even guess it to be as high as 10% I'm sure. 1% would be closer but even then too high.

    So it would appear that a realistic comparison would indicate that you're, at the very least, 500 times more likely to be saved by a hard hat/helmet than by a rifle
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  17. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I'm a huge proponent of this line of thinking, but in a more literal sense of "if you plan for this, it makes sense to plan for that too".

    If you have a rifle in your truck, do you have a trauma kit? Do you have quik-clot? Do you have rapid tourniquets? A general first aid kit? Mylar blanket for victims of shock &/or bloodloss? Any of the above here are far more common needs than a rifle, as life saving measures, because they fit the consequences of a much broader span of events. A rifle in your truck only serves a handful of very specific scenarios, very, very specific, and very, very rare. Alternatively, any of these trauma response items listed above are applicable for a much broader spectrum of much more common events - car wrecks happen every day, pedestrians or cyclists are hit by vehicles, workplace/jobsite injuries, home improvement injuries, etc - having trauma ready 1st aide kits on hand make a lot of sense. Of course, if you're carrying a rifle, you're planning on at least one specific cause of trauma, so it logically follows, if you carry a rifle, you'll need to carry a trauma kit. I keep a rifle in my farm trucks, because I frequently find coyotes too close for comfort to my cattle. I do not keep a rifle in my "daily driver." However, I do have first aide kits in every vehicle I own, including quik-clot, mylar blankets, and field tourniquets, as well as OFTEN carrying a tourniquet with me almost as often as I carry my CC handguns. I take 1st aide/CPR every year through work (as well as AED training), and since I'm no longer EMT cert as part of being on our Rural firehouse, I spend time each year with my brother-in-law reviewing/refreshing on trauma aide (he's a career paramedic, working on a firehouse, and serving as an HRT/SWAT trauma medic for their county sheriff's dept). If we're planning to have a mortal threat in which the extended duration to retrieve a rifle from storage works, we should be planning to save lives after the gunfire has stopped.
     
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  18. BSA1

    BSA1 member

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    Varminterror,

    You are bringing up some good points. Sootch00 youtube videos cover your ideas in more specific detail. However you are also stepping outside of the O.P.'s question and starting to enter the forbidden THR Prepper zone.

    First Aid is a topic all unto itself and proper trauma first aid requires some level of training. Even properly using a AED requires instruction/training.

    Why does carrying a long gun in your vehicle have to be a either/or question? Everything in life is a trade-off. Is keeping my AR worth the additional care that is required to transport and store it in my vehicle vs. leaving it locked up in my safe at home?

    We are told by gun safety advocates and required by law in some states and communities that firearms must be stored unloaded locked in a safe and the ammunition stored in a separate location in your home to prevent someone from being accidently shot. Considering the number of children that are accidently shot and killed by gaining unauthorized access to a loaded gun every year this makes sense. After all what are the odds that you will be sitting in your home on Sunday morning barefooted and someone will enter the church across the street from your house and commit mass shooting?
     
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  19. Gun Master

    Gun Master Member

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    I like your posting, but I hope your ONLY carry is not a SA.
     
  20. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    AED in my car? No, I don't have that.

    First aid kits in my family's cars? Yes. I've been doing that since for as long as I can remember. I replace them every few years as some of the items in them do not last for years on end. It ain't cheap over the long haul, but it sure is convenient to have when you need it.

    So far, I've only used mine for minor injuries to myself while working at places that, for whatever reason, don't have first aid supplies. The rest of my family haven't cracked their kits open possibly ever.
     
  21. Nuclear

    Nuclear Member

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    Since I spent a good portion of my professional life in the nuclear industry, I find the "it's such a low probability event that it isn't worth changing my carry habits" to be amusing, to say the least. After Three Mile Island, (which was a result of an NRC "expert's" unproven theory and traing operators to do the wrong thing as a result), an event where no one died, the industry spent millions of dollars and years at each plant in the nation evaluating the risk of events that statisticallly speaking, won't happen in many thousands of years, if ever.

    We have direct evidence of an increase in low probability, high impact events (multiple deaths and injuries) happening that could not be stopped by handguns carried to deter common criminals. Statistically speaking, it is less likely that you will be involved in such an event than being assaulted or robbed by a common criminal. The impact of one of these events is you, loved ones, family, friends, neighbors, community members or just innocent fellow humans being killed in mass. This changes how one manages the their risk.
     
  22. RedlegRick

    RedlegRick Member

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    As a newcomer here, I'll speak softly. My personal carry habits haven't changed, nor will they. I have always been situationally aware, as a result of being a former barroom bouncer, so I have that going for me.

    Carrying what I do, I have zero intention of doing more than keeping myself and anyone near me alive while putting as much distance and cover between me and whatever. Living where I do, a long gun in my vehicle is more a liability than a benefit and other than range or field trips you won't find one there.
    My weapon holds seven and I carry one spare, that's it. It's also of dubious value past twenty five feet in a stress situation and no amount of practice or training can correct that. It is what it is, and I have no desire for more than that.
    My plan is simple, remove myself from the situation. I'm not a cop, it's not my job. If I can do something I will, but the last thing I intend on doing is interject myself into a situation if I can possibly avoid it.
     
  23. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Thank you @BSA1 for trying to keep this thread on track, but it doesn' bother me, I expect the normal 2 page drift.

    My original thought and the reason for the topic is that I always carry an lcp, a 'mousr-gun' if you will. In light of the recent shootings, I have decided that for the time being , at least, I can see the benefit of carrying a gun that has more 'across the lot' capability as opposed to 'across the room' capability. Especially when I already have them.

    By the way, I do have first aid kits, blankets, tourniquet(giant zip ties), fire extinguishers, axe, spare fuel,shovel, flares, Flashlights, tools, tow rope, life jacket, etc, and a rifle in my farm truck.
    Oh...and even though i dont have a written outline on THR for any scenario that I might actually NEED to use it....I also have a spare tire. I have never needed it, but it's there.
     
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  24. mbok1947

    mbok1947 Member

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    My primary self defense concern (and the most likely of potential scenarios) remains the "gimme your wallet
    /carjacking instance at a gas station or parking lot. For that I feel secure with a Ruger LCR .357; it is very unlikely that I would require more than the five rounds onboard, or even to fire at all.

    However in the past few years I have upgraded whenever possible to the Shield .45, often with a second magazine, when going to malls or large public events which could be targeted by a mass shooter.

    And yes the probability is very low, like my house catching fire, but I still have a smoke alarm.
     
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  25. Low Budget Shooter

    Low Budget Shooter Member

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    I'm glad this question was raised, because I've been thinking right along these lines all week. Here's what I have done so far:
    1. put .38 Special back in the box and loaded with .357 Mag
    2. put compact on the shelf and started packing full size
    3. went back to practicing head shots
    4. put in some practice at longer distances
     
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