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in need of help

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by remmag, Jan 23, 2010.

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  1. remmag

    remmag Member

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    hey everyone
    take it easy , i am new and just getting started , and have a couple of questions i feel are very important
    1 . i have aquired another loading manual and the 2 i have dont compare on the load i am trying to make, 45 auto 200 grain led rnfp bullets

    lyman manual says starting load,
    unique powder,6.0 starting grains max 7.5 grains and 1.235 oal

    lee manual says
    unique powder, 5.1 starting grains max 5.1 grains and 1.190 oal

    i have loaded 100 rounds to the first (lyman) and have not shot any of them
    here is why

    after a few questions and alot of help from everyone and rfwobbly i took the barrel out of my gun and checked some rounds for fit
    if i drop a factory copper plated round(round nose) in the chamber you can spin it easily, i also notice that it seats a little below (towards the barrel from the 2 ears that the rim of the case restst against
    when i drop the reloaded rounds in it is difficult to spin it and it does not seat as deeply into the barrel . after marking on with magic marker and spinning it does not seem to be catching the riffling, i think but am not sure the led bullets have a much less gradual curve shape coming out of the mouth of the case, infact they show the same measurement a little way out of the case as the case. that leads me to thing (again i am not sure)that the led bullet is resting at the pooint where the chamber stops and the rifeling and barrel start
    i did try to seat 1 bullet to the 1.190 that lee recommends and the same result

    i know i have asked alot of questions and may be a pain in the a** but i really want to do this correct and keep all the parts of my gun and body assembled

    thank you much for all of your help
     
  2. fractal7

    fractal7 Member

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    headspacing on the case mouth

    Did you do any type of crimp with them? I think, and someone else can please correct me on this, that 45 ACP will stop based on the mouth of the case, so if its still flared out from seating the bullet that might be why its hard to spin.
     
  3. remmag

    remmag Member

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    yes i did do a slight crimp, i could try to re crimp alittle more
     
  4. mongoose33

    mongoose33 Member

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    I'll bet you don't have enough taper crimp.

    The .45 headspaces on the casemouth; if you don't remove enough of the casemouth expansion (belling) it'll interfere with the ability of the case to fully seat.

    I suppose it could be the OAL, but I load LRN in my .45 (it's an XD-45) at 1.225 and I don't have any problems w/ the bullet touching the lands. (Yeah, I know, could be different and might be, but I'd bet on the crimp before the OAL being the problem).

    I don't know if you make up dummy rounds or not (no primer, no powder), but that's the way to do it as you adjust things.
     
  5. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    What is the measured diameter of your lead bullets before loading??
     
  6. remmag

    remmag Member

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    at the very back .451 just in front of the case mouth once loaded .465. total cartridge length is 1.212
    i did manage to load 2 dummy rounds that spun freely inside the barrel as the factory rounds did
    one of the ones that sins good is .441 in front of the case mouth. the total cartridge length on that round is 1.229,

    do you think i have some poor manufactured bullets
     
  7. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    The bearing surface of the bullet should be .452" If i understand you correctly, some of the bullets measure .465" when loaded. This is not measuring on top of the brass, but on the lead bullet. Then you have bad bullets that need to be sized. Very strange??
     
  8. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Starting to think the bullets are make for a muzzle loader?
     
  9. remmag

    remmag Member

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    i aint got a clue, bought em at a gun show , they were labelled for 45 auto 200 grain
     
  10. remmag

    remmag Member

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    243
    i am not sure what the bearing surface is but i got .462 right in front of the case on the lead, could i possibly be deforming the bullets some how,
    i guess i can measure 1 before loading and after loading in the morning to tell
     
  11. bds

    bds Member

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    Remmag,

    Try sizing another case and see if that chambers well.

    If it doesn't, then the problem maybe not enough sizing to fit the chamber (a quick check).

    If the new sized case chambers well, then the problem might be not enough taper crimp to undo the bell flare.

    Re-measure the bullet, case with a caliper to rule out any other issues.
     
  12. Randy1911

    Randy1911 Member

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    RemMag

    If you look at the front of the 45 ACP section of the manual, it will give you all the measurments of the cartridge. On the brass part of the case, right at the tip of the case, it should measure .469 -.471. The bearing surface pf tje bullet is the part that is on either side of the wax ring on the bullet. That should measure .452
     
  13. remmag

    remmag Member

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    i just measured the bearing surface on an unloaded bullet snd it is .450.5 , i may be doing something in the seating process , i will check the same bullet after loading this bullet in the morning

    do you guys have any suggestions as to the difference in starting loads between the 2 manuals
     
  14. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    Alliantpowder.com shows 1.19 OAL with a max of 5.4 gr. Unique. I have a hard time going over the manufacturer's load, but I'm not an expert.
     
  15. James2

    James2 Member

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    On the loads. Notice that the Lee load is seating the bullet deeper. Seating deeper will raise the pressure. I think either load will be OK. Just use the suggested powder and seating depth given. I would not use the Lyman load and seat to the depth that Lee said.
     
  16. Randy1911

    Randy1911 Member

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    The proper seating depth is based on the bullet. If you're not using the exact same bullet as they list in the manual, the seating depth is meaningless. The nose shape of the bullet will determine the proper depth. This is why you should always start at the minimum and work up watching for pressure signs.
     
  17. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    This bullet is undersized (.4505"). You should buy some good bullets of the correct diameter .452" for lead. Alliant Unique @ 6.0 gr with a 200gr Lead bullet is OK for a starting load. Soft swaged bullets (Speer) should not be used for maximum loads. Cast or Jacketed bullets are needed for maximum loadings.
     
  18. remmag

    remmag Member

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    i am going to buy some bullets from missouri bullet co
    thanks
     
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