Maddogkiller
Member
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
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- 46
Duncan Idaho, that was beautifully stated!
(IN) Police told to leave guns at door
- Thread starter Drizzt
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Mike Irwin
Member
Gin,
I seriously doubt that judges have the authority to ban firearms in all county buildings that aren't court buildings.
If you read the first and third paragraphs, they seem to be at odds.
The question of whether judges could ban firearms in the "court house" is one that's open to quite a bit of question.
I would say that if the buildings are shared jurisdiction, holding both the courts AND other county offices not related to the courts, then the judges are way far out on a limb and their ruling has no legal authority, at least in those areas of the building that are county government, as opposed to county courts.
If the building is solely a center for the administration and process of law, then I'd have to say that yes, they very well may have that authority.
My former Father-in-law was a judge in White Plains, New York. I believe that he became so frustrated with people -- attorneys, defendants, and the public -- that he finally banned all cell phones and pagers from his court room because the interruptions were becoming so incessant.
I seriously doubt that judges have the authority to ban firearms in all county buildings that aren't court buildings.
If you read the first and third paragraphs, they seem to be at odds.
The question of whether judges could ban firearms in the "court house" is one that's open to quite a bit of question.
I would say that if the buildings are shared jurisdiction, holding both the courts AND other county offices not related to the courts, then the judges are way far out on a limb and their ruling has no legal authority, at least in those areas of the building that are county government, as opposed to county courts.
If the building is solely a center for the administration and process of law, then I'd have to say that yes, they very well may have that authority.
My former Father-in-law was a judge in White Plains, New York. I believe that he became so frustrated with people -- attorneys, defendants, and the public -- that he finally banned all cell phones and pagers from his court room because the interruptions were becoming so incessant.
GinSlinger
Member
Understood. However, I have never seen a building entirely devoted to the administration of law. Most that I have seen include vehicle registration, prosecutors offices, etc. One judge banning firearms in his courtroom is one thing, however a "majority" of judges voting to ban them building wide is quite another.
GinSlinger
GinSlinger
Matthew Courtney
Member
Cops should not be exempt from any law. Neither should Judges.
The true test of whether a law is good or not is whether it would be a good law if we applied it to everyone.
The true test of whether a law is good or not is whether it would be a good law if we applied it to everyone.
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Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
Only slightly off-topic, but relevant- a Texas incident. Could have saved us 11 years of feeding this piece of trash and the cost of his trial. By the way, the State finally put him down Wed. 7-2-03.
Maybe that judge would have preferred he be equipped with a Taser Belt, but I'd rather he be looking up at a detachment of officers with .45's poinitng at his noggin.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Killer of Arlington optometrist set to die
07/23/2003
Associated Press
HUNTSVILLE, Texas - The long day of jury selection was over and everyone in the Tarrant County courtroom was somewhat relaxed when accused killer Cedric Ransom made his move.
With a 51/2-inch piece of broken glass taped at one end and hidden in his hand, the capital murder defendant tried to stab one of his attorneys in the back. Ignoring orders from a bailiff to back off, Ransom turned his attention to a nearby prosecutor.
"He was coming at me and his words were very clear: 'I'm going to kill you! I'm going to kill you!"' recalled Bob Gill, now a state district judge in Tarrant County. "He got to me and the fight was on. He and I went down. I knew what was in his hand and I grabbed that arm with both my hands."
Neither Gill nor the other attorney, Chris Phillips, was seriously hurt in the November 1992 attack but both were removed from the case.
Ransom went on to trial and was convicted of capital murder for gunning down Herbert Primm, 47, an optometrist and part-time gun dealer, outside Primm's Arlington home Dec. 7, 1991. Ransom was 18 at the time.
Gill wound up being a witness to help show how Ransom was a continuing threat, one of the questions jurors had to answer when determining a death sentence.
Ransom's lethal injection was set to be carried out Wednesday evening.
Ransom, 29, would be the 19th Texas inmate executed this year and the first of two on consecutive nights.
"He was a bad guy," said Richard Bland, one of the prosecutors who worked to convict Ransom. "He was involved with four capital murders in 17 days, robberies of convenience stores.
"Most people go to an ATM to get cash, he'd go to convenience stores and not leave any witnesses."
Ransom's death sentence was overturned in 1994 when the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled his trial judge improperly excluded a potential juror. Prosecutors returned him to court in 1997 for another sentencing trial where, against his lawyers' advice, he took the stand, denied he was guilty of the Primm slaying but confessed to multiple convenience store murders.
The second jury sentenced him to death.
In an appeal awaiting a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court, Ransom contended he was mentally retarded, making him ineligible for execution under a high court ruling in another case last year.
Testimony showed Ransom and three companions went to Primm's house to look at some guns. Primm, who held a federal firearms license, opened the trunk of his car and the four pulled out their own weapons. According to testimony, Primm told the gun thieves to "just take them" but Ransom bent him over the hood of the car and then shot Primm once in the head with a .44-caliber pistol. He was arrested three days later.
While locked up in Fort Worth, records showed he attacked a jailer. And while on death row outside Huntsville, he and a second condemned inmate used a hacksaw blade to cut through a fence in 1997, climbed to the roof of the prison, then were making a run across an open area to try to scale a pair of perimeter fences when they were spotted by an officer who ordered them to halt.
"There is no question at all," said Gill. "This is one of the more dangerous guys I've come across in 20 years in the criminal courts."
Ransom, a ninth-grade dropout, declined to speak with reporters from death row in the weeks leading up to his scheduled punishment. His three companions during the Primm slaying also are in prison, serving terms of at least 20 years.
"We had a couple of the codefendants to testify against him," Gill said. "We had information that connected him to the operation before hand and connected him to the murder weapon. One or more of the guns stolen from the victim were found at his residence.
"It turned out all right. He got what I feel he deserved."
On Thursday evening, Allen Wayne Janecka faces lethal injection for being the hitman in a murder-for-hire plot that left four members of a Houston family dead. Among the victims was 14-month-old Kevin Wanstrath, who was fatally shot in his crib in 1979.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.wfaa.com/latestnews/stories/072303dntexexecute.b7d01c45.html
Maybe that judge would have preferred he be equipped with a Taser Belt, but I'd rather he be looking up at a detachment of officers with .45's poinitng at his noggin.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Killer of Arlington optometrist set to die
07/23/2003
Associated Press
HUNTSVILLE, Texas - The long day of jury selection was over and everyone in the Tarrant County courtroom was somewhat relaxed when accused killer Cedric Ransom made his move.
With a 51/2-inch piece of broken glass taped at one end and hidden in his hand, the capital murder defendant tried to stab one of his attorneys in the back. Ignoring orders from a bailiff to back off, Ransom turned his attention to a nearby prosecutor.
"He was coming at me and his words were very clear: 'I'm going to kill you! I'm going to kill you!"' recalled Bob Gill, now a state district judge in Tarrant County. "He got to me and the fight was on. He and I went down. I knew what was in his hand and I grabbed that arm with both my hands."
Neither Gill nor the other attorney, Chris Phillips, was seriously hurt in the November 1992 attack but both were removed from the case.
Ransom went on to trial and was convicted of capital murder for gunning down Herbert Primm, 47, an optometrist and part-time gun dealer, outside Primm's Arlington home Dec. 7, 1991. Ransom was 18 at the time.
Gill wound up being a witness to help show how Ransom was a continuing threat, one of the questions jurors had to answer when determining a death sentence.
Ransom's lethal injection was set to be carried out Wednesday evening.
Ransom, 29, would be the 19th Texas inmate executed this year and the first of two on consecutive nights.
"He was a bad guy," said Richard Bland, one of the prosecutors who worked to convict Ransom. "He was involved with four capital murders in 17 days, robberies of convenience stores.
"Most people go to an ATM to get cash, he'd go to convenience stores and not leave any witnesses."
Ransom's death sentence was overturned in 1994 when the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled his trial judge improperly excluded a potential juror. Prosecutors returned him to court in 1997 for another sentencing trial where, against his lawyers' advice, he took the stand, denied he was guilty of the Primm slaying but confessed to multiple convenience store murders.
The second jury sentenced him to death.
In an appeal awaiting a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court, Ransom contended he was mentally retarded, making him ineligible for execution under a high court ruling in another case last year.
Testimony showed Ransom and three companions went to Primm's house to look at some guns. Primm, who held a federal firearms license, opened the trunk of his car and the four pulled out their own weapons. According to testimony, Primm told the gun thieves to "just take them" but Ransom bent him over the hood of the car and then shot Primm once in the head with a .44-caliber pistol. He was arrested three days later.
While locked up in Fort Worth, records showed he attacked a jailer. And while on death row outside Huntsville, he and a second condemned inmate used a hacksaw blade to cut through a fence in 1997, climbed to the roof of the prison, then were making a run across an open area to try to scale a pair of perimeter fences when they were spotted by an officer who ordered them to halt.
"There is no question at all," said Gill. "This is one of the more dangerous guys I've come across in 20 years in the criminal courts."
Ransom, a ninth-grade dropout, declined to speak with reporters from death row in the weeks leading up to his scheduled punishment. His three companions during the Primm slaying also are in prison, serving terms of at least 20 years.
"We had a couple of the codefendants to testify against him," Gill said. "We had information that connected him to the operation before hand and connected him to the murder weapon. One or more of the guns stolen from the victim were found at his residence.
"It turned out all right. He got what I feel he deserved."
On Thursday evening, Allen Wayne Janecka faces lethal injection for being the hitman in a murder-for-hire plot that left four members of a Houston family dead. Among the victims was 14-month-old Kevin Wanstrath, who was fatally shot in his crib in 1979.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.wfaa.com/latestnews/stories/072303dntexexecute.b7d01c45.html
This is a problematic policy.
If you are disarming LEOs in a courthouse on personal business, that is one matter. Good for the goose, good for the gander. A LEO has no more need to tote his sidearm to a divorce proceeding than any other citizen. However, if he is in court in performance of his duty as a law enforcement officer, in uniform, he should be armed. Period.
FWIW, I'm fully in favor of gun bans in courthouses. And yes, when I go to the courthouse on personal business, the sidearm stays at home.
Mike
If you are disarming LEOs in a courthouse on personal business, that is one matter. Good for the goose, good for the gander. A LEO has no more need to tote his sidearm to a divorce proceeding than any other citizen. However, if he is in court in performance of his duty as a law enforcement officer, in uniform, he should be armed. Period.
FWIW, I'm fully in favor of gun bans in courthouses. And yes, when I go to the courthouse on personal business, the sidearm stays at home.
Mike
Maddogkiller
Member
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
- Messages
- 46
I hope that you don't ever have need of it between your home and the courthouse.
I also hope that a fellow citizen will not be in need of your intervention while you are unarmed.
Duncan Idaho
member
So the LEO keeps his gun in the truck vault instead of taking it into the court. And since the gun is banned inside the courtroom, we have to assume that it is because some of us believe that courthouses possess some magical quality that separates them from other edifices, correct?
But wait!!! Lo and behold! We didn't want the hypothetical LEO to have his weapon in the magic building, and yet, after losing everything in court, he goes to his truck vault, and shoots his ex on the sidewalk.
Good thing we (the idiot taxpayers) paid a couple hundred grand a year to have Winkin', Blinkin', and Nod disarming the sheeple as they came in to the magic building. :banghead:Or maybe he stalks her later that evening and stabs her. Good thing they disarmed all the sheeple in the courthouse...right? That sure helped her out! Didn't it?
We Agro-American types have a name for places that feature unarmed sheeple herds. We call them scumbag-murderer-bait-stations.
Oddly enough, one never hears of big-time shoot 'em ups at the locales that us rednecks congregate in. Not a lot of mass shootings at the gunshow. And yet, there are guns laid out on tables as far as the eye can see!?! How curious.
Oh well, I reckon that I will just give the bait stations a wide berth. You sheeple are on your own. God bless, and keep you, 'cause I sure won't.
:banghead: 
No. Its just a building, in where guilt an innocence is decided (in criminal cases) and other legal matters are resolved. As such, its best that the people going before the court are disarmed. And, rather than accomplishing this in a poor manner (like simple rules banning guns, which only the law abiding obey) there are actually guards and deputies present to enforce the rules and protect the people going before the court.
Irrelevant. The violence was prevented where the disarmament took place. The fact that it could occur later is not a valid argument. And, yes, I'm very much in favor of CCW and open carry, outside of venues where there is a bonafide need for security and actual security in place. This is my beef with most victim disarmament zones. If you compell disarmament, it had best be necessary, and you better have armed guards there to protect the people you just disarmed. This is done at a courthouse. This is not done in a school safety zone, or your average government building.
Mike
Orthonym
Member
Wow! Don't get excited, guys!
I think we do it better in Florida. I believe the state statute says that the judge is the sole authority on who may or may not be armed in the courtroom, regardless of any other laws. We used to have a judge in this county who was famous for keeping a Thompson under the bench. There was a power failure in his court, once, and when the lights came on again there was the judge hunkered down behind the bench, covering (generally) the whole room and (specifically) the Defense table. I don't think that fellow would have taken any nonsense from ANYONE, be he private or public. Unfortunately, the old guy is no longer with us.
I think we do it better in Florida. I believe the state statute says that the judge is the sole authority on who may or may not be armed in the courtroom, regardless of any other laws. We used to have a judge in this county who was famous for keeping a Thompson under the bench. There was a power failure in his court, once, and when the lights came on again there was the judge hunkered down behind the bench, covering (generally) the whole room and (specifically) the Defense table. I don't think that fellow would have taken any nonsense from ANYONE, be he private or public. Unfortunately, the old guy is no longer with us.
Duncan Idaho
member
Hence the call by Eve in the one mommy march to ban rocks after Cain whacked Abel.
It was also just done at the Brooklyn City Hall. The victim is dead as a doorknob. The armed plain clothes police officer was unable to kill the assailant until after he had succeeded. Then again, that the assailant was armed was more a function of the idea that some animals are more equal than others. The victim's status as a cop, and a city councilman allowed him to escort his killer around the metal detectors that only the sheeple must pass through.
If disarmament is compelled, those doing the compelling will always exclude themselves. After all, who is going to stop them? The unarmed sheeple? Yeah, right.
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