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Indianapolis postman shot in the eye with a .38

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by dom1104, Jul 8, 2009.

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  1. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

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    Huh, shot in the FACE with a 38 revolver, it glances off his cheekbone and ends up in his neck, and he is fine. well, reasonably fine.

    The mailmans quote in the paper was "If that bullet was any bigger, I'd be dead."


    38 is somewhere between 380 and 9mm in power yes?

    Well if you shoot someone point blank in the FACE and they can still call their wives on a cell phone....

    suddenly I am thinking maybe a j frame isnt such a hot idea.

    It was going to be my next purchase.

    I mean people say " shot placement shot placement" I would think in the cheek would be pretty decent shot placement.

    Either way, this was about 4 miles from my house. wowzers.


    video link = http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/Postal_worker_shot_in_SE_side_robbery_20090702



     
  2. j21blackjack

    j21blackjack Member

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    All I've got to say is that someone up there is looking out for that guy.
     
  3. JoeMal

    JoeMal Member

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    Yeah, it just wasn't this guys time to die
     
  4. riverrat373

    riverrat373 Member

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    Don't give up on a J frame. The man was very lucky indeed!
     
  5. lions

    lions Member

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    It doesn't say it was straight into his face, it may have been a glancing blow for all we know. Nothing wrong with a J frame, a shot glancing off a bone is much different than straight into the eye.
     
  6. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

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    I bet it stopped him as it would anyone else shot in the face.
     
  7. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    Sounds like it delivered a good deal of energy to me. Yeah, I know you said people would likely point out the importance of placement, but it really is crucial.
    This fellow was just lucky. Not all people are.
     
  8. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    If you are looking for a 'one shot' killer under all circumstances of hits you need to move away from firearms to ordnance. And even then you are going to find those one in a million times when the target just refuses to die.

    Better still, let's thank a merciful God that a good man wasn't taken from us before his time. And let's further pray the State of Indiana will bring justice to the scum that attacked him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  9. danbrew

    danbrew member

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    Sounds like the guy was a moron. It's the banks money - they have insurance, they have video cameras, what was the rush to go get the guys tag number?

    Pleeeeasssse. Had I been sitting in line at the bank and been carrying and the events transpired as indicated in the article above, I'da been home having a cold one an hour later instead of sitting in the hospital.

    He's not afraid of dying? Good for him. I'd prefer to die for a good reason if I have a choice.
     
  10. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    It is counterintuitive, but head shots often fail. Something like 60% of the head is non-vital structures and of the via CNS structures, most have a pretty good shield. People get shot in the skull but the rounds sometimes bounce, deflect, or otherwise fail to do the proper damage.

    You think shooting somebody in the cheek would be a good shot? Sure, if you want to hit the head, but you are also have to realize that there just aren't all that many critical structures in the face.

    You seem very confused. You note that shot placement is critical and then think that maybe a J-frame isn't a good idea. Had the shot placement been correct, the J-frame would have done fine.
     
  11. m_kirk2001

    m_kirk2001 Member

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    I don't see a problem with the .38...

    I don't see a problem with the .38 spl, especially since we have no bullet or gun information. The bottom line is that a "shattered" cheek bone and a jaw broken in EIGHT places sounds like the bullet had plenty of energy to get the job done if it hadn't spent its entire course of travel in solid bone. It also did the job the robber wanted it to...the guy stopped trying to get his license plate number.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  12. m_kirk2001

    m_kirk2001 Member

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    danbrew, I hope you aren't my neighbor! I'm assuming that since you are on a forum like this one you are a gun owner. I'm also assuming that if someone breaks into your house you would be willing to take care of business with the understanding that if you call 911, your life could be ended by the time LE gets there.

    This mail man is a hero! His concern wasn't that the bank had lost the cash that he needed for his lunch money, it was that he knew that if all he did was call 911 with no vehicle information it would only lessen the chance that the guy would be immediately apprehended. Citizens have a social responsibility to be proactive about fighting crime, that is why we promote the right to bear arms, not to make sure that they can go home and have a cold one while a violent criminal goes out to blow his money and then find another victim.

    If a police officer had been responding and had been shot in the face and died would you have deemed it a "good reason" to die?

    Disclaimer: I am not advocating untrained citizens to put themselves in life threatening situations as a matter of civic duty, only to do what they can to aid in the apprehension of criminals. (If the mail man knew he would be shot in the face when he went outside, obviously he shouldn't/wouldn't go.) I am also not advocating that you dress up for a Bank of Los Angeles shootout whenever you want to go and get lunch money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  13. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    If more folks watched over their fellow man as this mail man did, our country would be in much better shape. He had some balls to do this.
     
  14. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

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    well you are right about confused thats my normal state.

    I guess what I am confused about is, he was shot upwards into the cheek bone, it TURNED the bullet around and it ended up in his neck.

    Would a heavier bullet or a bullet moving faster have continued on without being deflected?

    if he was shot with say a 44 mag or a 357 or .45 would the result have been different?

    this is what i am wondering.

    granted .38 special has a large range of power levels, and there is no bullet info.


    I guess I am just amazed that a bullet can be turned around by a cheek bone. The last few deer I have shot ribs, backbone, even shoulder blades didnt severly deflect the shot.

    Maybe thats the diference between a 44 mag and a 38. not sure. so yeah I am confused. I would have thought the 38 would have the oomph.
     
  15. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

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    and I agree, danbrew is incorrect. A real man does what he can to help protect his hometown. Not sits like a wimp and 'has a cold one'. There are names for that, and its not "Man".

    I am thankful, since its MY community that this postman was protecting.
     
  16. maskedman504

    maskedman504 Member

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    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
     
  17. raskolnikov_22

    raskolnikov_22 Member

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    Definitely the exception, not the rule!
     
  18. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    What makes this country great is its people. People like our hero who tried to help out in a crime. If some of us don't give a #*it about our community then sorry for them.
     
  19. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    It just wasn't the postmans day to die. I pray he heals up and is back to work soon!
     
  20. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    There's no guarantees. The only consistent thing about handgun ammo is that it's inconsistent. There was a police officer killed a few years ago when a perp being pulled over shot him with a .22 derringer. First shot hit him in the vest. Perp then took five .357 magnum rounds, three in the torso, while the police officer retreated to his car. Perp then fired his last .22, which hit the officer in the armpit, pierced his heart, and killed him nearly instantly. Perp survived his multiple major gunshot wounds.
     
  21. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Member

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    The J-Frame is probably the best carry gun ever.
     
  22. danbrew

    danbrew member

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    I've thought about this thread on and off all day and I must say I am baffled by those of you who think the postman is a hero.

    Let's review the facts...

    * Bad guy comes into a bank and robs it and displays his willingness to use his gun by shooting it off in the air
    * Bad guy gets his money and is on the way out the door without any injuries
    * Postman could have just stayed there and said "daaayyyyaaammmm - do you believe that?"
    * Instead he runs out and confronts a bad guy and gets shot

    This particular "hero" will probably not suffer too much economically as a result of being a federal employee (are postal employees even federal employees? I thought that the postal service was a private entity, but am too lazy to go look it up). Assuming he is a federal employee, or his employer has to follow some of the federal employee rules, the government (you and me pal) will pay for his medical and he'll probably get some time off for work based upon his accrued sick leave. If he has any remaining. I know for a fact that when a federal employee runs out of sick leave, he's outta luck. What if he hadn't been a postal employee? What if he had been a self-employed businessman? He would be screwed from medical expenses that will likely run to the tens of thousands of dollars. Those of you that believe he was acting as a hero are sorely misguided if you believe the bank will fork over one dime for his trouble.

    It would be a completely different situation if the bad guy were preparing to execute someone, although the postman has already demonstrated that he was ill equipped to intervene in such a situation. Had I been in the bank packing, I would have calmly watched until I believed that my life or that of another was in imminent danger of death or serious injury.

    The bank has insurance and would rather the bad guy take the few grand and hit the road. The bank *might* be on the hook from a media relationship perspective if the robber came in and executed a few customers, although most of you will agree that the bank has no obligation to protect its customers (or employees) from unlawful acts. The light fixture is held together with scotch tape and it falls and smacks somebody upside the head? Yeah, the bank is on the hook for that. The bank is being robbed and a bad guy shoots a customer that is either standing by passively or intervenes? Well, gee, the bank had no way of knowing that would happen and it's not the bank on the hook to make you well.

    Those of you that imply that to stand by idly is tantamount to being an uncaring citizen with no concern for others really worry me. Are you seriously suggesting that an unarmed citizen should confront an armed robber? M_Kirk2001, you say that this is not what you advocate; yet you chastise me for suggesting that one should not escalate the situation? Please. The fact of the matter is that very few bank robbers get away with it. There are silent alarms, there is video inside and outside of the bank, and the only objective of the bank is to ensure that no one is injured in a robbery. Some believe that it is not manly or that one has abdicated his civic responsibility to stand by in such a situation. I advocate that it's better to be a live witness instead of a dead or shot in the face guy lying in the hospital as a result of unconsidered or hasty action.

    I'd feel completely different about the situation if the responder in this case was a law enforcement officer. That individual would have the training, the firearm, and the color of authority to back up his actions. We'd like to hope that he'd also have some common sense and not stumble into getting shot. It's difficult to Monday-morning the actions of the postman (or a law enforcement officer) after all is said and done, but the fact remains that if the postman hadn't tried to become involved he wouldn't have gotten shot.

    Also a different story if the bad guy is in my house. I'd argue that it's best to get the guy to scram rather than shooting him. A good friend shot and killed a 17-year-old armed robber in 1982 and while he was completely justified and the prosecutor ended up not filing charges, he spent about $60,000 that I'm sure he didn't have to stay out of jail and to deal with the resulting civil suit.

    If I am ever faced with a situation outside of my domain, I'm watching. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to be in a situation where I could shoot, I'm offering every opportunity for the guy to vamoose. I'd think that most of us would choose self defense if it came right down to it, but it is very disturbing that there are those amongst us (the pro second amendment types) that would advocate putting yourself into a situation where you could shoot. What kind of person wants that? If you ask me, that's not really in keeping with the principles and the charter of "The High Road".
     
  23. Cards81fan

    Cards81fan Member

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    I am with you danbrew. If I am unarmed, you will not see me confronting a criminal that has already made it clear he is fleeing the scene.

    I am not sure what the victim accomplished in this scenario besides adding more charges to the perp's rapsheet.
     
  24. danprkr

    danprkr Member

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    Money is NOT the criteria you should be using to decide shoot/noshoot!

    Also, I have say that all in all I align myself with
    And it wasn't my community the guys was protecting!
     
  25. Cards81fan

    Cards81fan Member

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    Can someone please tell me what this postman did to protect his hometown? Did he somehow detain the perp until police arrived? What did he do that changed the likelyhood the perp was captured?

    I am sure the perp fled after the shooting, and was later apprehended. I suspect this would have happened regardless of the intervention. I mean, it appears as if he attempted to sieze the weapon of the perp. Did he get the license plate information after being shot in the face, leading to the capture?

    Seriously, did he engage the armed perp with nothing but his hands? Or was the perp aiming and shooting before the victim grabbed at him? I intend this as a serious queston.
     
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