Indoor Loudness of common home defense rounds
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briansp82593
Member
40 s&w, twice 
No hearing loss
No hearing loss
Outdoors, my son fired a 5.56 M4 before I got my ears on. I was only a few feet from him. I actually felt pain in my ears. Not to mention the ringing and I could not hear much of anything for an hour. I don't ever want to experience that again.
theken206
Member
dont know, but 12GA mil spec buck shot and .30-30 rounds are pretty loud indoors it seems
spacemanspiff.mc
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"Remember, +10dB = twice as loud."
Actually it's even worse than that because it's a logarithmic scale and therefore more damaging to the ears.
+10dB = 10x as loud
+20dB = 100x as loud
+30dB = 1000x as loud
etc
Actually it's even worse than that because it's a logarithmic scale and therefore more damaging to the ears.
+10dB = 10x as loud
+20dB = 100x as loud
+30dB = 1000x as loud
etc
jjohnson
Member
357 is Very Nasty.
Well, I've shot indoors with full power .357 mag loads and can tell you it's flat out concussive. In a room of maybe 1500 cubic feet of airspace with nowhere else for the sound to go, it's just about deafening. You know, ears ringing for a couple hours.
I fully believe that the .45 would make more of a boom and be less unpleasant, and the 9mm going subsonic would have a sharper crack, but I can tell you for sure you don't want to touch off a hot .357 load indoors without protection unless you really have to.
Well, I've shot indoors with full power .357 mag loads and can tell you it's flat out concussive.
In a room of maybe 1500 cubic feet of airspace with nowhere else for the sound to go, it's just about deafening. You know, ears ringing for a couple hours.I fully believe that the .45 would make more of a boom and be less unpleasant, and the 9mm going subsonic would have a sharper crack, but I can tell you for sure you don't want to touch off a hot .357 load indoors without protection unless you really have to.
Claude Clay
Member
e-muffs next to the gun & the flash. e-muffs save your ears if you have to fire AND allows you to hear 'them' whispering in the other rooms. it is such a win/win thing to do.
besides, if 'they' see you in jammies with ears and a flash and a gun: they'll think you're ray walston and run.
besides, if 'they' see you in jammies with ears and a flash and a gun: they'll think you're ray walston and run.
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That's excellent advice, and a lot of people seem unaware of this and similar advice from others.
In Sixguns, Elmer Keith describes the recoil and muzzle blast of shooting a 3 1/2 inch .357 in an indoor range as extremely objectionable to hardened ammunition testers. Imagine doing that without ear protection!
I can tell you that no matter what the situation, hearing protection is vital. I understand that for home defense in the middle of the night, you're not likely to have earmuffs on. I'd be lucky to wake up and get my glasses on.
I can personally attest to the unpleasantness of tinnitus. It's nothing to be happy about, and it never goes away. I used to be young and stupid with a .357, and didn't need no stinkin' muffs. Tinnitus is freakin' miserable.
I can personally attest to the unpleasantness of tinnitus. It's nothing to be happy about, and it never goes away. I used to be young and stupid with a .357, and didn't need no stinkin' muffs. Tinnitus is freakin' miserable.
That's funny that this question should come up, because several years ago I had the same question. I made a bullet trap in the garage and tested what I had on hand. I used ear protection so my observations were relitive rather than absolute. And what I found out then was what everyone is saying now.
.22 short in berretta pocket auto = loud enough to be uncomfortable. .44 special 246 gr. LRN. in S&W 4" revolver = very loud but low muzzle flash. .45acp in 5" colt 1911 = louder than .44 special slightly more muzzle flash. Full power .357 mag. in 6" revolver = ear splitting with blinding muzzle flash. I had a 4" .41 mag. but enough was enough. At a latter date I tried out a .280 rem. deer rifle. The report was breathtaking an the fireball out of the end of the barrel truly awsome - lit up the place like daylight for just an instant.
Conclusions: 1. any firearm discharged in a closed space will most likley cause at least some hearing damage with the 1st shot.
2. A .44 spl or .45 ACP is a good choice for a home defence gun
3. A shot fired out of a .357 mag. will most likely leave you and the bad guy completely disorenited.
4. Shooting deer rifles is an outdoor sport.
5. When push comes to shove my life is worth more than my hearing.
Befor anyone rags on me for conducting such a stupid test, please know that I already know it was a rather dumb thing to do, but it was fun anyway.
.22 short in berretta pocket auto = loud enough to be uncomfortable. .44 special 246 gr. LRN. in S&W 4" revolver = very loud but low muzzle flash. .45acp in 5" colt 1911 = louder than .44 special slightly more muzzle flash. Full power .357 mag. in 6" revolver = ear splitting with blinding muzzle flash. I had a 4" .41 mag. but enough was enough. At a latter date I tried out a .280 rem. deer rifle. The report was breathtaking an the fireball out of the end of the barrel truly awsome - lit up the place like daylight for just an instant.
Conclusions: 1. any firearm discharged in a closed space will most likley cause at least some hearing damage with the 1st shot.
2. A .44 spl or .45 ACP is a good choice for a home defence gun
3. A shot fired out of a .357 mag. will most likely leave you and the bad guy completely disorenited.
4. Shooting deer rifles is an outdoor sport.
5. When push comes to shove my life is worth more than my hearing.
Befor anyone rags on me for conducting such a stupid test, please know that I already know it was a rather dumb thing to do, but it was fun anyway.
Andy-Y
Member
What?
No doubt about that, tinnitus DOES suck. That constant ringing will drive you nuts if you let it. I used to shoot skeet, duck hunt out of a blind, and operate loud power tools without hearing protection. I regret it every day, and the only time I don't use hearing protection now is when I hunt. Though I do plan on getting some of those electronic ears for hunting soon.
As to the original question, I know it's loud and really bad for you, but if I HAD to I wouldn't hesitate emptying a mag in my house, hearing be damned!
No doubt about that, tinnitus DOES suck. That constant ringing will drive you nuts if you let it. I used to shoot skeet, duck hunt out of a blind, and operate loud power tools without hearing protection. I regret it every day, and the only time I don't use hearing protection now is when I hunt. Though I do plan on getting some of those electronic ears for hunting soon.
As to the original question, I know it's loud and really bad for you, but if I HAD to I wouldn't hesitate emptying a mag in my house, hearing be damned!
neviander
Member
I fired a .357 with a 6 inch barrel when I was very much outside and it deafened me for the rest of the day....scared the crap out of me. There was no loud bang, just a short "P" sound then no birds singing and I couldn't hear what my buddies were saying when they were right next to me. I handed the gun off and walked inside.
Has anyone seen There Will be Blood? (I'll try not to spoil it) I think of the scene where the character that had been deafened was laying on their side just moaning, but they couldn't hear themselves. That's kind of what I was doing until my hearing returned; of course I wasn't completely deaf, but I kept kind of saying "la la la" to test my hearing.
For that reason, I won't buy a .357 handgun...a rifle sure, but that supersonic muzzle blast that close to my head won't happen again, at least not voluntarily.
Has anyone seen There Will be Blood? (I'll try not to spoil it) I think of the scene where the character that had been deafened was laying on their side just moaning, but they couldn't hear themselves. That's kind of what I was doing until my hearing returned; of course I wasn't completely deaf, but I kept kind of saying "la la la" to test my hearing.
For that reason, I won't buy a .357 handgun...a rifle sure, but that supersonic muzzle blast that close to my head won't happen again, at least not voluntarily.
I agree.
Strongly agree. Those who prefer revolvers, would be very wise to use a .44 Special for indoor self-defense, and save the .357 Magnums for outdoor use.
Agreed. If you fire a .357 Magnum in a low/no light situation indoors, you can count on being blinded, deafened and disoriented for at least several seconds. If your assailant recovers before you do, you may very well end up a dead man.
No-brainer!
Absolutely. But if you plan ahead and use a caliber that's easier on your ears than the .357 Magnum, such as .44 Spl or .45 ACP, you can avoid or at least reduce significant permanent damage.
You stated you used hearing protection. If the protection you used was adequate, and you suffered no hearing damage, then I don't see a problem with your test.
Elmer Keith was a man's man, and probably knew as much about revolvers (and revolver ammo) as anybody alive during his lifetime.
If he says .357 Mag is too loud indoors, IT'S TOO LOUD.
As I stated in my previous post, those who prefer revolvers would be very wise to use .44 Spl for indoor defense, and save the .357 Mag for outdoor use.
loop
Member
This thread has gone on a while and I'm surprised no one has mentioned the side affects of shooting a high-powered round in the house.
I once had fired several rounds of .357 in the living room (circumstances are irrelevant). We had a lot of things hanging from the walls. There were a lot of photos, artwork, a number of guns and knickknacks. My guess would be half of the them came down on the first round.
I know because it distracted me from the armed men coming through the front door. I ended up firing five rounds (there was one left in the gun when the police arrived). About a third of the loose things (lamps, ashtrays, wall hangings) were not on the floor. Everything in the room that was relatively light in weight was not where it was before.
I really do not recall the hearing issue from the time, but I do recall feeling like I received a full-body slap with every round. I actually felt like I had been beaten up.
I was the only one to fire a gun. I fired five rounds. Four were accounted for. The only one I was sure of was the first guy through the door. He got a .357 half-jacketed, 158-grain HP to COM. Guess I just kept shooting because it seemed like the right thing to do...
I had to buy a lot of new picture frames. It took a week to clean up all the glass and crap. When I moved a year later we found stuff we'd missed in that first week of cleaning.
As far as loud, didn't sound very loud to me. Sounded like what I expected. Concussion was a real surprise though. I'm used to it now though. You do have to be very careful of your eyes. The concussion of shooting a high-powered round in confined quarters will blur your vision severely.
Concussion is the most overlooked part of confrontational shooting I know of. Because I've been on receiving end more than once I feel it is the most important thing folks who haven't been in CQC need to be concerned of.
It is also the reason a mouse gun is effective. I can miss your head by a foot with a .32, but you won't be able to see and you'll be disoriented, unless you are a veteran of CQC.
BTOP, loud? What do I care? I don't have to hear again until I'm answering questions for the PD.
Loud? supersonic negates your hearing faster than subsonic.
I would also add that way too much of what people know about guns must come from TV. Blow off a round of 30-06 in your living room and then check to see if your TV still works.
The reality of shooting in a defensive posture is quite different from what anyone who has not done it can imagine.
I once had fired several rounds of .357 in the living room (circumstances are irrelevant). We had a lot of things hanging from the walls. There were a lot of photos, artwork, a number of guns and knickknacks. My guess would be half of the them came down on the first round.
I know because it distracted me from the armed men coming through the front door. I ended up firing five rounds (there was one left in the gun when the police arrived). About a third of the loose things (lamps, ashtrays, wall hangings) were not on the floor. Everything in the room that was relatively light in weight was not where it was before.
I really do not recall the hearing issue from the time, but I do recall feeling like I received a full-body slap with every round. I actually felt like I had been beaten up.
I was the only one to fire a gun. I fired five rounds. Four were accounted for. The only one I was sure of was the first guy through the door. He got a .357 half-jacketed, 158-grain HP to COM. Guess I just kept shooting because it seemed like the right thing to do...
I had to buy a lot of new picture frames. It took a week to clean up all the glass and crap. When I moved a year later we found stuff we'd missed in that first week of cleaning.
As far as loud, didn't sound very loud to me. Sounded like what I expected. Concussion was a real surprise though. I'm used to it now though. You do have to be very careful of your eyes. The concussion of shooting a high-powered round in confined quarters will blur your vision severely.
Concussion is the most overlooked part of confrontational shooting I know of. Because I've been on receiving end more than once I feel it is the most important thing folks who haven't been in CQC need to be concerned of.
It is also the reason a mouse gun is effective. I can miss your head by a foot with a .32, but you won't be able to see and you'll be disoriented, unless you are a veteran of CQC.
BTOP, loud? What do I care? I don't have to hear again until I'm answering questions for the PD.
Loud? supersonic negates your hearing faster than subsonic.
I would also add that way too much of what people know about guns must come from TV. Blow off a round of 30-06 in your living room and then check to see if your TV still works.
The reality of shooting in a defensive posture is quite different from what anyone who has not done it can imagine.
[QUOTE user="spacemanspiff.mc"]
[quote user="kludge"]Remember, +10dB = twice as loud.[/quote]
Actually it's even worse than that because it's a logarithmic scale and therefore more damaging to the ears.
+10dB = 10x as loud
+20dB = 100x as loud
+30dB = 1000x as loud
etc[/QUOTE]
Often quoted, but not true. (+6 dB is also often quoted for being twice as loud.)
Trust me. I do this for a living. +10dB = twice as loud.
[quote user="kludge"]Remember, +10dB = twice as loud.[/quote]
Actually it's even worse than that because it's a logarithmic scale and therefore more damaging to the ears.
+10dB = 10x as loud
+20dB = 100x as loud
+30dB = 1000x as loud
etc[/QUOTE]
Often quoted, but not true. (+6 dB is also often quoted for being twice as loud.)
Trust me. I do this for a living. +10dB = twice as loud.
spacemanspiff.mc
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
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No...
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.html
We're talking about loudness of sounds in DBs. Not sones or phons or the perceived loudness.
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.html
We're talking about loudness of sounds in DBs. Not sones or phons or the perceived loudness.
Black Majik
Member
Even .22LR without hearing protection is quite unbearable.
That hurt and made my ears ring for quite a bit.
That hurt and made my ears ring for quite a bit.
kcshooter
Member
I can verify this, with real-life experience shooting a .357 defensively inside a house.
Didn't hear a thing. But my ears rang afterward, when I had calmed down enough to notice.
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