Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Info needed about Texas Penal Code

Discussion in 'Legal' started by MADDOG, Oct 6, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MADDOG

    MADDOG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    Where can I look for information on firearms and convicted felons? I did a search on the Texas Penal Code and the only thing that I found was someone selling books. Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Texas PC 46.04 covers this.

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.04

     
  3. MADDOG

    MADDOG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    Thanks Can a felon enter and/or be in a dwelling that has firearms and ammo in it? Locked in a safe.
     
  4. middy

    middy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,416
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes.
     
  5. divemedic

    divemedic Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,462
    Location:
    30 minute drive from Disney World
    as long as the felon does not have access or possession of the weapon or any ammunition.
     
  6. MADDOG

    MADDOG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    Where is this written? I would like to copy it, if possible. When you say access what does that mean as far as ammunition and powder, primers are concerned? In a cupboard, closet, box ect. or does it have to be locked also?
     
  7. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    I posted the penal code section above.

    Texas Penal Code 1.07 defines "possession" as :

    Unfortunately what you are asking for is a real world application of the law, and that's not going to be written down anywhere.

    That will be found in previous cases before the court, but it can vary and it doesn't necessarily end the same way every time.

    If the statutory definition isn't clear enough you really need to talk to a lawyer and get advice for your specific case.

    Don't forget there are some Federal laws here too, especially if the felony had anything to do with domestic violence.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  8. divemedic

    divemedic Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,462
    Location:
    30 minute drive from Disney World
    Also see 18 USC Chapter 40

    (17)(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

    snip

    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
    (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

    snip

    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


    So, powder, cases, bullets, ammo, and primers are all off limits under Federal law.
     
  9. MADDOG

    MADDOG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    I guess I should of asked it like this. Can a felon come to my house if I have firearms, ammunition, and reloading supplies? All of the firearms will be in the safe. Is it neccessary to lock up the ammunition, primers, powder, and the projectiles? Thanks
     
  10. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,960
    Location:
    Deep East Texas
  11. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    I would say yes, MADDOG.

    What I did in military housing when I was required to have an inside lock for my guns and supplies was get a $10 locking doorknob and switch out the doorknob on a hall closet with the locking doorknob and had a nice storage area for everything.

    Flintknapper,
    Why would the rest of the supplies not have to be locked up when the requirements are the same?
     
  12. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Personally I would lock it all up, just in case. You've seen the Federal definitions that include primers and components. A bit over the top? Probably.

    More importantly, why are you letting a felon in your house that you have to worry about this in the first place?

    If it's something you can't avoid for whatever reason I would take no chances at all and lock every last bit of it up, both to keep him out of potential trouble as well as yourself.
     
  13. MADDOG

    MADDOG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    The felon is a relative who needs a job and a place to live for a few months. It appears this person has changed, and is trying to do it right. I am just trying to help. Wish me luck. I don't think I would be the one in trouble, the felon might be though. People close to me say they should get a another chance. One is all I have.
     
  14. rogertc1

    rogertc1 member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,497
    Have your Felon call his parole agent.
     
  15. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,960
    Location:
    Deep East Texas
    NavyLT wrote:



    Because the true test for either seems to be “possession” not “access”.

    My recommendation to lock up the firearms is to guard against a possible “civil suit” should the weapons be used unlawfully by a third party. Not because “access” is anywhere mentioned in the Penal Code.

    ================================
    EXPCITE
    TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    PART I - CRIMES
    CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
    HEAD
    Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

    3) Liability for use. -
    (A) In general. - Notwithstanding any other provision of law,
    a person who has lawful possession and control of a handgun,
    and who uses a secure gun storage or safety device with the
    handgun, shall be entitled to immunity from a qualified civil
    liability action.
    (B) Prospective actions. - A qualified civil liability action
    may not be brought in any Federal or State court.
    (C) Defined term. - As used in this paragraph, the term
    "qualified civil liability action" -
    (i) means a civil action brought by any person against a
    person described in subparagraph (A) for damages resulting
    from the criminal or unlawful misuse of the handgun by a
    third party, if -
    (I) the handgun was accessed by another person who did
    not have the permission or authorization of the person
    having lawful possession and control of the handgun to have
    access to it; and
    (II) at the time access was gained by the person not so
    authorized, the handgun had been made inoperable by use of
    a secure gun storage or safety device; and
    (ii) shall not include an action brought against the person
    having lawful possession and control of the handgun for
    negligent entrustment or negligence per se.
    =================================

    It could be argued that “access” itself constitutes "constructive possession".

    The Definition of which is the following:

    constructive possession n. when a person does not have actual possession, but has the power to control an asset, he/she has constructive possession. Having the key to a safe deposit box, for example, gives one constructive possession.
    =================================

    By not locking up both ammo and firearms you do run the risk of an overzealous prosecutor trying to make the “stretch” by claiming "constructive possession".

    IMO, Prosecution would have difficulty establishing constructive possession…(just because a firearm/Ammo is in the house)…. since it requires they prove “intent” to exercise actual “possession”.

    Any competent lawyer should be able to establish for a jury….the difference between relative “proximity” and actual “possession” (the physical care, control, custody) of an item.
    ==================================

    Presumably, this person has not yet satisfied the time limit upon which he/she may again lawfully (Texas Law) possess a firearm:

    Texas law provides that a convicted felon may possess a firearm on the premises where he/she lives once five years have elapsed from his release from prison or from parole, whichever is later. Texas Penal Code §46.04.
    =============================

    Note: This is Texas’ attempt to allow Felons a means by which to defend themselves in the home. Certain FEDERAL laws however…could be interpreted to invalidate this.

    Of course, the smart thing to do is contact a Lawyer familiar with ALL State, Federal and Case law concerning this matter. As mentioned by someone else already, there is no simple application of written law to be universally applied here.

    Flint (not a lawyer).
     
  16. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    Understandable... but I think from the statutes that you have seen, just have a lock between him/her and the guns, ammo, primer, powder, bullets and you should be just fine. You don't need to try to keep Houdini out, just any old simple lock on a door will be enough.
     
  17. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,960
    Location:
    Deep East Texas
    Agreed! ^^^^^^^^
     
  18. MADDOG

    MADDOG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    Thanks for the information. This will be interesting.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page