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Inquiry Finds Five Cases of Koran 'Mishandling' at Gitmo

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Vernal45, May 26, 2005.

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  1. Vernal45

    Vernal45 member

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    This is why we will not WIN the war on Terror. We are worried over a Book. How to treat a Book. Yet the enemy has no problem burning a Bible.


    Inquiry Finds Five Cases of Koran 'Mishandling' at Gitmo

    Thursday, May 26, 2005

    WASHINGTON — U.S. officials have substantiated five cases in which military guards or interrogators mishandled the Koran of Muslim prisoners at Guantanamo Bay (search) but found "no credible evidence" to confirm a prisoner's report that a holy book was flushed in a toilet, the prison's commander said Thursday.

    Brig. Gen. Jay W. Hood (search), who commands the detention center in Cuba, told a Pentagon news conference that a prisoner who was reported to have complained to an FBI agent in 2002 that a military guard threw a Koran in the toilet has told Hood's investigators that he never witnessed any form of Koran desecration.

    The unidentified prisoner, questioned at Guantanamo on May 14, said he had heard talk of guards mishandling religious articles but did not witness any such acts, Hood said.

    The general said he could not speculate on why the prisoner had recanted his earlier statement, which was contained in an Aug. 1, 2002, summary of an FBI (search) agent's July 22, 2002, interrogation of the prisoner. The summary was made public this week.

    "I'd like you to know that we have found no credible evidence that a member of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay ever flushed a Koran down a toilet," Hood said. "We did identify 13 incidents of alleged mishandling of the Koran by Joint Task Force personnel. Ten of those were by a guard and three by interrogators."

    Of the 13 alleged incidents, five were substantiated, he said. Four were by guards and one was by an interrogator. Hood said the five cases "could be broadly defined as mishandling" of the holy book, but he refused to discuss details.

    In three of the five cases, the mishandling appears to have been deliberate. In the other two, it apparently was accidental.

    "None of these five incidents was a result of a failure to follow standard operating procedures in place at the time the incident occurred," Hood said.

    Allegations of Koran abuse have stirred worldwide controversy. After Newsweek magazine reported earlier this month that U.S. officials had confirmed a Koran was flushed in a toilet, deadly demonstrations were held in Afghanistan, although it is not clear what role that story played in sparking the violence. Newsweek later retracted its report.

    In an indication of the Pentagon's eagerness to discredit the allegation, Hood briefed reporters on the interim findings of his investigation even though the Pentagon's standard practice is to withhold comment on the progress of any official investigation until it has been completed. Hood did not say how much longer his inquiry would last. He said he was still screening newspaper stories and legal documents from court cases involving detainees in which allegations of Koran mishandling were made.

    Eight of the 13 alleged incidents of Koran mishandling that Hood has looked into were not substantiated. Six involved guards who either accidentally touched a Koran or "touched it within the scope of his duties" or did not touch it at all. "We consider each of these incidents resolved," Hood said.

    The other two cases in which the allegation was not substantiated involved interrogators who either touched or "stood over" a Koran during an interrogation, Hood said. In one case not deemed to be mishandling, an interrogator placed two Korans on a television. In the other case, which Hood did not describe fully, a Koran was not touched and Hood said the interrogator's unspecified "action" was accidental.

    "We've also identified 15 incidents where detainees mishandled or inappropriately treated the Koran, one of which was, of course, the specific example of a detainee who ripped pages out of their own Koran," he said.
     
  2. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    This whole koran thing is rediculous.

    I went to the library, and read it. Technically, since I'm an "impure infidel", I'm under a death sentence in some islamic countries just for touching it! Touching it!

    Meanwhile, they're burning our flag, looting churches, blowing up buddist treasures, and pretty much disrespecting anything to do with any other religion.

    They need to get out of the 14th century as regards to the koran, because I predict it will become a national sport to "desecrate" it.
     
  3. boofus

    boofus Guest

    The koran in the toilet isn't abuse! It's art!! They should claim protection under the 1st Amendment. Just like when the leftists burn American flags or urinate on Bibles. It's karma.
     
  4. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Member

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    ..the war is already on... talking of why, or adding fuel to the fire...is a moot point.
     
  5. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Baffling. Amazing. Incredible. Depressing. Why in the world is this even an issue?
     
  6. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    The War on Terror can't be won.
     
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    It's how we can tell we've let the enemy define the war.

    Well, not if we don't a.) fight it, and b.) fight it to win. When we let the enemy define the war in terms of the treatment of inanimate books, we've obviously forsaken all thought of winning a real world war.
     
  8. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

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    Just a small point, but when debating invisible super heros that livein outer space people get upset, so I guess it's all relative.

    ASUI in Islam they don't have a 'God' to directly worship, they worship the texts written by Mohammed (or maybe his son, I think, depending on which type of Islam). Judaism is like this too, they have clothign and a necklace for the Torah and the torah is very respected, but Islam takes it even further.

    So to compare, I guess you would have to give the Pope a swirly and see how catholics like it, or something like that, because the closest thing to compare their Koran to IS Jesus, not the bible.
     
  9. GoRon

    GoRon Member

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    The Pope is a human being. The Koran is a book.

    Assaulting a human bieng is not the same as showing disrespect to a book.

    That this even has to be pointed out is ridiculous.

    I think it is safe to say that the Muslims that are committing idolatry of a book are of the rather more extreme wahabi types.
     
  10. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Anybody know what the penalty for owning a bible in Saudi Arabia is?
     
  11. Ironworker

    Ironworker Member

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    Holy texts not of acceptable Islamic orgin can lead to beatings, fines, expulsion, and possibly a beheading, JohnKSa. The Saudis are extraordinarily concerned with the preservation of the exclusivity of their religion, and moreso their particular version of it.

    Given that the koran is allegedly the word of god, as dictated to Mohammed by an angel (Michael?), one would be inclined to think it would possess a more robust nature and not need to be treated as though it were spun glass as most of the Islamic world does. Sheesh, most Americans are Christian of one flavor or other, and they tend to get more upset at someone buning the flag than reading the bible whilst on the john...
     
  12. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Minor observation folks - keep religion per se, low key or zero - it ain't up for discussion. Just so as thread can stay open ya know! :)
     
  13. SIGarmed

    SIGarmed Member

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    No we are not worried about a book. In fact I'd say by the looks of it we're winning.

    The only ones who care about some alleged "abuse" are the liberal whiners who won't let it die.

    These stories have been going on for a couple of years. In the dramatic fashion of the left they won't let it go.

    Having our countrymen get their heads cut off or the story of Beslan has already been forgetten by the same whiners.
     
  14. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    I agree this whole thing is blown out of proportion. The enemy knows the way to win the war is through discontent in America.

    When it comes down to standing over aQua'rn or touching it if you are not a believer, as examples of mistreatment, we really have gotten into a pissing match. If ripping pages out of a book is what we need to do to get people to talk, then people should really realize IT IS A FREAKING BOOK. You know what I'd do if someone destroyed a Bible in front of me? Look at them like they were stupid. I'm not exactly non-religious, either. I'd probably be a little mad, but not to the point of killing anyone over it, or even hurting someone over it. Definitely not be crying ABUSE over it.

    By claiming these cases are abuse and torture (even, to some degree, calling the Abu Ghraib things torture), it really takes away from cases where people are actually tortured (losing limbs, body parts, lives, etc.)

    Actually, I wonder. If we started Nuking any city that desecrated a Bible...
     
  15. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    The Brits want to ban steakknives.

    We are apologizing for even the intimation of Koranic sacrilege.

    The Lunacy is spreading.

    But it's not universal.

    The irony will be the savagery that all this moral self-mutilation will ultimately release. A lot of us, remembering headless bodies and gutted skyscrapers, are on the sidelines watching this absurdity unfold and getting very, very mad.
     
  16. SteveS

    SteveS Member

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    The previous Pope was shot and while there was outrage, I don't recall any rioting. Nor was there any rioting in response to Sinead O'Connor ripping up a picture of the Pope on SNL, though Frank Sinatra said he would kick her a$$.
     
  17. armedcitizen

    armedcitizen Member

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    and Old Blue Eyes could've done it too!
     
  18. Iain

    Iain Member

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    You won't win the WoT if you turn it into a war of religion.
     
  19. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    Iain makes a good point. If the war becomes anti-Islam instead of Anti-terrorist, we're in for a worse problem than we have. That is my concern with the alleged mistreatment of the Koran. It gives Al Quada and the like more recruiting ammuntion. "See, America wan'ts to destroy Islam, not terrorists. Terrorism is their excuse to come after us."

    By the way, has anyone seen what the actual "mishandling" was? Are we talking about not properly storing it, or trashing a copy as an interrogation technique?
     
  20. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    The problem is, that it seems impossible to not "mistreat" it in some way. Just touching one when you're "impure" is considered abuse requiring a death sentence.
     
  21. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    I guess that's my concern. The press (great tellers of truth that they are) makes it sound like intentional mistreatment, either out of disrespect, malice, or method of interrogation. THat would be one thing. Touching it when your a Baptist guard in a prison, well that would be something else.
     
  22. bakert

    bakert Member

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    My understanding is that even owning a Bible in Saudi Arabia is cause for beheading. This whole thing is another example of the 'truthfullness and support" not only for our people in uniform but the whole USA by the media. This whole thing is based on some reporter's interview with an "innocent" detainee caught by our forces in some act. Contrary to what some say, these people were not picked up randomly. How many prisoners have any of you ever heard of say they were guilty or lying to you.The first amendment is one thing but the whole world of journalism seems to crow over every death or setback the USA suffers in the Mideast and seems to thrive on reporting unproven and outlandish accusations. How any thinking person can believe anything reported in the papers or on TV is beyond me. :banghead:
    Baker
     
  23. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    Not to the islamofacists. Intent has nothing to do with it, accidental or not, touching it is defilement, and you're head should be cut off.
     
  24. Iain

    Iain Member

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    But that isn't the case with every single muslim who might well be offended by deliberate mistreatment of the Koran.
     
  25. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    I'd sure like to have one of those "super toliets" that is capable of flushing a Koran.

    :D
     
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