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Interesting comment from Sherrif's deputy

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Jonnybronco, Mar 9, 2010.

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  1. Jonnybronco

    Jonnybronco Member

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    Some friends and I were out shooting last Saturday when a sheriff's deputy came out to our site. (We were in a legal area, but someone had called in to complain). He was nice about the whole thing and even came over to look at our guns.

    One of my friends has a NAA 22 WMR that he always carries. As always my friend feels like he has to defend his choice of carry weapon, to which the officer responds something to the effect of, "I have seen more fatal shootings from 22s than any other caliber".

    He said that the people are still alive when he gets there, but because the bullet "bounces around" inside they almost never recover.

    Anyone else ever heard this?

    Jonny
     
  2. nathan

    nathan Member

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    I love the .22 LR , too. QUite accurate on small game hunting.
     
  3. JR

    JR Member

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    I have actually heard this before from a few people that I go shooting with...
     
  4. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    The sheriff's deputy is correct. In my 20+ years in law enforcement, I too
    have seen more people killed by a .22 caliber projectile than any other~!
    Many times, you won't find an entrance wound; muchless a exit wound.
    In my first three months on the street, my partner and I responded to a
    shooting call that had two people shot. Upon arrival, one subject was
    lying in the drive-way, shot in the stomach with a .32 caliber weapon.
    He lived, but the other subject was shot under the right arm [near the
    arm pit] with a .22 caliber handgun; he was dead on the scene~! ;) :eek:
     
  5. gkdir

    gkdir Member

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    The .22lr, and the .22mag., are nasty little rounds. Not going to "stop" someone in there tracks, but I guarentee its going to screw up there day enough to give you some time to go to plan "B".
     
  6. GunsAmerica Fan

    GunsAmerica Fan Member

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    I think it is more because people don't treat it as a serious danger than that the bullet does any bouncing around in there. People ask me why I don't take my 7 year old twins to the range with .22s and that is why. I want them to show me a few years of safe behavior with bb guns before I trust them to handle a .22. You can't have your eyes and hands on a kid every minute and I know what I .22 can do.
     
  7. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

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    Ive heard this as well.

    i would guess its because .22 guns are so cheap to obtain and most households have them and during a robbery they are likely stolen. The people i know with 1 gun that happens to be a .22 they got at K-mart, Walmart, or big box store for $100, isn't investing in a Safe.

    JOe
     
  8. Ed N.

    Ed N. Member

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    > I too have seen more people killed by a .22 caliber projectile than any other


    I've heard this many times, but I've always wondered whether it might be that more people are shot with a .22 than any other single caliber. That would lead to more deaths for that round. Could that be the case? The .22 is a very popular caliber.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  9. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    .22 LR is the most popular (volume-wise) caliber, IIRC. More people shooting .22LR inherently equals more accidents, homicides, and justifiable shootings with this caliber.

    Also, there are a lot of idiots who do not treat .22LR firearms with the same regard for safety as larger guns. I have heard of people who knew it was dangerous to fire centerfire rifles into the air that did not think it was dangerous to do so with rimfire cartridges :banghead:
     
  10. APDDSN0864

    APDDSN0864 Member

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    Back in the mid 80's we had a fellow officer killed with a .22lr. Round went into lower abdomen under his vest area, bounced around so much that even after five hours of surgery the Docs couldn't stop the bleeding and he died on the table.
    I've seen suicides where the person shot themselves in the temple and the round bounced back and forth inside without exiting.

    Ed

    Shawn, You're absolutely right. The term "bounced around" is not actually what happens. Bullet fragments, deflection from striking bones, and skin cause multiple "insults" to internal organs & structures.
    Sounds cool for it to "bounce around, but we're not talking about a rubber ball here.
    Thanks for calling it like it is.

    Ed
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  11. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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    The bullet doesn't actually "bounce around" inside the thoracic or abdominal cavities anymore than it would suddenly change course and "bounce around" if you shot it into a swimming pool full of water.

    A .22 caliber lead round nose bullet gets its reputation for "bouncing around" because the soft lead easily deforms when it hits bone, which expends energy it might otherwise use for penetrating bone. Coupled with the rounded nose and relatively low bullet mass, when it encounters bone at an angle, instead of penetrating the bone, it simply glances off and/or rides against the bone, like a car glancing off and/or riding a guard rail in a curve. In order to "bounce around" the bullet must collide with bone, or encounter skin at an angle where it would be expected to exit the body. (The holdback effect of the skin often traps the bullet under the skin where it rides against and underneath the skin until it it depletes its penetration potential.) The differences in density and penetration resistance of various soft body tissues is insufficient to make the bullet suddenly change course.

    .38 Special RNL bullets also exhibit the same characteristic for glancing off bones as .22 RNL bullets.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  12. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    +1

    I'd suppose if lots and lots of people were getting shot with .44-40 bullets the police would find most deaths came about due to that caliber, just as if many people were being shot with (FILL IN CALIBER) the same would be the case there.

    And, yeah, as has been said a .22 into the head bounces around.
     
  13. Warhawk83

    Warhawk83 Member

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    When my wife was in high school,a friend of hers sneaked back into her house (she was staying at a friend's house). It was the middle of the

    night and her dad heard someone in the house, the girl and her friend hid in the closet and then jumped out to scare her dad. The poor guy

    had a .22 and shot at the noise, the round hit her collar bone and bounced around insider her torso hitting every vital organ. He had a few

    minutes with her as she died.
     
  14. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    My ex-chief of police that I worked for in Colorado was shot in the abdomen by a juvenile with a .22 rifle. He was chasing a stolen vehicle (all occupants juvenile brothers, 11,13, and 15 yrs). The 13yr old was firing from the car affter he got them stopped. One shot from an ARMED CITIZEN who saw the chase and decided to help caused the boy to drop the gun. Armed citizen had a .44 Super Blackhawk, and fired in the air. Took several months for the officer to recover, but he pretty much got back to normal. although he lost some intestine. He said it did incapacitate him pretty well at the time. I worked for him several years later.
     
  15. Rickstir

    Rickstir Member

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    I worked on an ambulance back in the mid 60's. We had a lady shot by .22. She was alive when we got there, but not when we got to the hospital. But then again, she was shot 8 times.
     
  16. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    There's a difference between "fatal" and "incapacitating".

    1. I attack you and you shoot me several times with a .22lr handgun. I proceed to murder you, dying of infection in the hospital several days later.

    2. I attack you and you shoot me several times with a .45acp handgun. I am incapacitated and unable to continue my attack. I recover in the hospital and am subsequently incarcerated.

    Which one would YOU prefer?

    I want to be protected, not avenged.

    I want you to stop doing what caused me to have to shoot you, RIGHT NOW. If that causes you to die, that's fine. If it doesn't cause you to die, that's fine too.

    Injecting somebody with HIV will probably kill them eventually. At one time, it was pretty close to a 100% death sentence It's not what I'd consider effective self-defense, even in the 1980s.
     
  17. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    we had a rather large gentleman here who was found dead. was thought to be natural causes till someone ran their mouth in jail. it turns out he had been shot with a 22 with almost no visible indication.
     
  18. BCCL

    BCCL Member

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    .22's are great killers, but poor stoppers.
     
  19. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Chances are, he has seen more people survive being shot with a .22 than any other caliber as well. Doctors I have spoken with have seen more people shot with a .22 that walked themselves into the emergency room than with any other caliber.
     
  20. elrod

    elrod Member

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    National statistics show the .22 to be the greatest cause of death by gunshot in our country simply because there are so many more .22s than any other caliber present in our country. We use .40s and .357s to present as much force as possible, but the people who are not concerned with self-defense as much as the average home-defense person usually have a .22 lying around for pl inking. These people never think of the home invasion threat, and have the .22 as the only weapon should anything happen. Simply the weapon of availability.
     
  21. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    There was a big story in 1997 here in Portland... well... big for Portland anyway :)

    (The only link I could still find was the one below, and it is interesting as it is a lawsuit against the shooters insurance company to pay out for wrongful death..... the shooter Saboato Raia was found not guilty as he acted in self defense.....)

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/data2/mainestatecases/00me155r.pdf

    He killed 3 men, with a .22 pistol
     
  22. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    That sounds enough like bouncing around to me, for casual conversation. Maybe not literally, but it'll do.
     
  23. AzBuckfever

    AzBuckfever member

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    There's a reason you don't see many criminals carrying high calibers (44, .357, etc.) As said, that statement is true. .22s bounce around and create a lot of damage, almost like a shotgun. Not only that but most .22 bullets are bought in those wonderful boxes of 550 or so, and they're all hollowpoints. Like it or not, even a piece of lead the size of a needle travelling at 600 fps can do some damage. So now imagine this little bullet explodes once it hits your rib and shrapnel goes everywhere. Most cases, that damage is more devastating than a singal .357 to the abdomen.
    Even moreso is that a .22 is extremely compact and can hold several rounds. Plus, you get into the age issue. Legal to buy .22 ammunition at 18 vs. 9mm or basically anything else until 21. Leaves 3 years for your young thugs trying to make it up in the ranks and make it easy to obtain ammuntion. It's pretty easy (most of the time) to tell if someone is under 21 or could be, but how many 12 years olds have you seen who look like they could be older?
     
  24. Wolfebyte

    Wolfebyte Member

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    When I was working the jail back in 1982-85, we had an intoxicated young man brought in that had been threatening his wife/girlfriend. She had enough and shot him in the chest from a distance of about 15 feet. .22 round struck left of the sternum, twisted under the first layer of muscle and followed the path of least resistance, going under his left arm and exiting 3 inches left of his spine. It stopped him from attacking, he found out she was serious. Didn't kill him, dr dressed the two wounds, gave him antibiotics and a tetanus shot and deputy brought him to jail.

    it was 3 weeks before he could put his left arm down to his side without pain though..
     
  25. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    There is a big difference between killing and stopping.

    To understand that, consider the Florida FBI murders. The bad guy who did all the killing was killed by a shot fired by the first FBI agent to die. That agent killed him, but didn't stop him. The bad guy killed the agent, then proceeded to kill and wound all the other agents.

    Another point is how the shootings happen. It's one thing to pop an unprepared and innocent man. It's another thing for that innocent man to haul out his own gun and defend himself against a drug and adrenaline-charged opponent.

    And as pointed out earlier, the statistics are skewed by the criminals' choice -- the cheapest gun they can get, which is usually a .22. So police see a lot more shootings with .22s than with any other caliber.
     
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