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Interesting Couple Of Minutes This Morning.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Trunk Monkey, Nov 7, 2015.

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  1. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Had a run in with a mentally disturbed homeless man this morning. I was on my way to my church for a function. The church is only a block or two from my home so I was on foot.

    I walked across a bridge and I heard something in the weeds underneath, turned around and looked and a homeless guy that lives in my neighborhood is running up the bank behind me.

    Like I said the guy is known in the neighborhood and he's nuts so I kept an eye on him and kept moving away but I wasn't too concerned. So long story short about a half a block away he's catching up to me and I turn to look at him and he has a knife in his hand.

    At this point he still hasn't even acknowledged my presence but because he is coming towards me with a weapon in his hand I felt justified in taking at a minimum a more defensive posture so I backed up behind a transformer box, cleared my cover garment, put my hand on my gun but didn't draw and asked him "Is everything OK?" The guy looked at me and mumbled something about donuts and walked away.

    At this point he's ahead of me and moving away (I.E. No longer a threat) and all I have to do is change direction. At this point I take my hand off my gun and take a 90 degree turn away from the guy and walk away. Last I saw he was washing his face in the window washer fluid at a gas station.

    I didn't call the cops because they wouldn't have done anything anyway but I did tell my wife that if she sees this guy around our building she is not to go outside and if she's in the car she's to go around the block again.

    My main point in this is that I did take any action until I could articulate a specific action on his part (coming towards me with a weapon in his hand) that would have made any reasonable person in the same situation feel threatened and as soon as the threat ended I stood down.

    Do any of you think I acted out of turn?
     
  2. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Since you asked for everyone's opinion, my opinion is that you handled it exactly right. Good job. :)
     
  3. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Seconded.
     
  4. BLB68

    BLB68 Member

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    Thirded.
     
  5. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Well handled. The sad part is that your experience is being duplicated all across the country since we ignore our "homeless crazies" until they actually hurt someone. Wish it weren't so.

    One of the places I fuel up each day (truck and boat) has a resident crazy that sits right next to gas station day in and day out on an old piece of concrete pipe - talking to himself and occasionally shouting and yelling. All the while everyone in earshot is aware of him. One of these days he'll do more than disturb folks - then there will be questions as to why no one dealt with him before that happens. Considering the state of Florida's mental health facilities (there's a real controversy about that ongoing now...) this is just one more symptom.... Wish it weren't so - but I can remember years ago when my young officers were trying to get help for one crazy or another without success.... Very discouraging.
     
  6. BSA1

    BSA1 member

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    You handled it well although a 911 call should have been made since his aggressive behavior now involves a deadly weapon.
     
  7. ford8nr

    ford8nr Member

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    I'll second THAT ONE
     
  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Always call police.
     
  9. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I really can't say his behavior was "aggressive" , he was walking down the alleyway behind me with a knife. I can't even say for sure he knew I was really there until I spoke to him and maybe not then.

    I didn't call the police because they wouldn't have shown up for an hour or so. We just had a shooting here where the shooter was walking around with a gun for 10 minutes before his first shot. People called the police and they said there was nothing they could do.
     
  10. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Guesswork, and not a good reason.

    First, suppose the man had killed the next person who came along, in an incident that might have been prevented?

    Second, had a witness seen things differently and reported the incident, you would have three things against you: the witness report, the fact that your carry position supports that report, and your having failed to report it.
     
  11. PBR Streetgang

    PBR Streetgang Member

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    I would have called 911, just so the incident was documented..............
     
  12. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I guess I'm too cynical but I really see no reason to waste my time with CSPD because I don't think they would have come and if they did I would have been the target of their investigation.

    I appreciate your input but if I had it to do over I still don't think I would have called the cops.

    I don't know how to express this but (in hindsight) I really don't think this guy even knew I was there until I opened my mouth. Please note I never said the guy was "following" me he was walking down the street behind me.

    All the homeless people around here carry some kind of weapon so the fact that he had a knife in itself wasn't that unusual. It was the totality of the circumstances that tripped my radar.
     
  13. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Great idea! Call the police and say, "I saw a guy with a knife". Having a knife is perfectly legal where I live.
     
  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Posted by Trunk Monkey:
    That's not the point.

    Why do you say that? Had he or someone else been the first to call, you most certainly would have been the target of their investigation.

    Yet you saw fit to clear your cover garment and put your hand on your gun....

    So, you felt that you could convincingly articulate a basis for a reasonable belief that you had been justified in your action?

    In a few states, moving your cover garment and putting your hand on your gun would be a crime, unless you had a reason for believing that physical, non deadly force had been required. In most, however, the threshold is a need for deadly force. The severity of the crime varies, up to aggravated assault or equivalent.

    The best defense is always, always to be the first to call it in. If there was no reason to call it in, there was no lawful justification to show, touch, or even mention the gun.
     
  15. col.lemat

    col.lemat Member

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    No laws against being crazy either. See it all the time here in Southern California. Have to wait until after someone gets assaulted before doing anything, then the order of business is a report after the fact.
     
  16. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Should have called 911. You might save the next person the attacks. And, the cops and DA will take action if you push it. He needs to be off the streets. If that means jail then so be it. He is a threat.
     
  17. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    So now homeless people are a "threat"? Good grief.
     
  18. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    I see that you're in Southern California. You've obviously never been outdoors. I worked in San Diego, Los Angeles, and Riverside for a few years.

    Walk outside, call the cops and DA every time you see a crazy person and start pushing to have them taken off the streets. Make sure you have unlimited minutes on your phone plan. You'll be dialing 911 without a break for the rest of your life.
     
  19. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Some comments here sound eerily reminiscent of the govt propaganda from a few years ago. Report everything you see to help them catch all of our "homegrown terrorists". Some things to look for, having more than 7 days of food in your house, storing ammo in weathertight containers, owning gold or silver, and so on. Seriously, call the police bc you see a grown man with a knife?
     
  20. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    And then some are kinda suggestioning between the lines that since he's homeless he shouldn't have a knife and needs to be in jail.
     
  21. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    Overall, good job. I would have called the cops as well. Would probably have done so anytime I see someone wandering down the street with a knife drawn and mumbling to himself.
     
  22. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    Many of them are.

    I recently had a long term / multiple engagements with a homeless person that was taking advantage of a relative. The homeless person (he was living in a condemned house) suffered from alcohol dementia, and was a mean, hateful, spiteful SOB. He often fought any of the other predators that tried to take advantage of my relative (there are a lot of them out there), but when he could not intimidate / run me off, he started filing false police reports against me.

    He once told the police I pulled a gun on him (he couldn't answer specifics when questioned, and my relative said there was no gun involved), and the very next day while I was at the police station discussing what was going to be done about this fellow continuing to lob false accusations / charges at me, he had called the police and reported I had come to his "apartment" and knifed him and beat him up. The police told me he did have a knife wound and appeared to have been in a fight, but I was on video at the PD's desk captain's desk at the very time I was supposed to have beaten up and knifed this fellow.
    I don't know if he knifed himself in an effort to frame me, or whether he had tried to use one of his numerous fight's injuries (he was always fighting) to conveniently frame me?

    Anywho...I'm guessing in retaliation for misusing the legal system, the police ran him out of the abandoned house (they already knew he was staying there), which actually made things worse for the neighborhood.

    Fortunately, the fellow died - the local drunks / crack heads say he committed suicide (popped an entire bottle of pills, then killed a fifth of liquor) - just so happens he was to appear in court the next morning on assault charges.

    As others have stated, I think I would have called the police to let them know what happened - as many trainers have stated, the first person to call the police gets to play the victim - you're just lucky he did not call the police on you (a man with a gun threatened me!).
    Should the police have come looking for you, guess what they would have found?
    Yup...a man with a gun!

    It's always best to CYA in these situations.
     
  23. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    But I bet you don't call the cops when you see someone buy beer and then get in their car. How do you not know they won't drink and drive? Drunk drivers kill more people than someone with a knife or gun....
     
  24. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Cool story. However, the exact same story goes along with many many people that are not homeless. He never showed his gun either according to his post.
     
  25. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Many black people a threat bc of this experience I had...
    Many Hispanic people are a threat bc of this experience I had....
    Many MEN are a threat bc of this experience I had....
     
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