Back to the original question. In California this would be considered a Person to Person Transfer (PPT) and there are no laws that would prohibit it. But the system used by FFL's to get state part of the paperwork done has no provision for entering an out of state person info into the system for either the buyer or the seller. So even though it is not against the law the state has effectively prohibited this type of transaction (IE. and out of state seller doing a PPT to a California resident).
Interstate transfer
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deadin
Member
Unless California has a unique definition of PPT it is against Federal law for an interstate transfer of a handgun without the use of a FFL.
Or are you saying that CA FFL's can't receive a handgun from out of State unless it is on the CADOJ list? That's not what I've been led to believe per several of our CA members when it comes to guns no longer in production.
(And you wonder why sellers just don't want to deal with anyone in CA
)
Ah, but you did just by using their service. They agreed to deliver your shipment and you agreed to their fees and rules. Did you sign the slip you fill out for shipping? Even if you didn't sign anything, there is an implied contract for service, conditions and renumeration.
Or are you saying that CA FFL's can't receive a handgun from out of State unless it is on the CADOJ list? That's not what I've been led to believe per several of our CA members when it comes to guns no longer in production.
(And you wonder why sellers just don't want to deal with anyone in CA
)Ah, but you did just by using their service. They agreed to deliver your shipment and you agreed to their fees and rules. Did you sign the slip you fill out for shipping? Even if you didn't sign anything, there is an implied contract for service, conditions and renumeration.
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No that not what I wrote. In Ca you do PPT through an FFL only even for in state transfers. Anything else is illegal. The law does not say anything about prohibiting an out of state seller from doing a PPT through a Ca FFL and before the new system went in place a few years ago the system accommodated this. But a few years ago FFLs had to put new automated systems in place to handle the state forums for this that uses a card reader and this system does not allow out of state sellers information to be processed since it only works with Ca. IDs and there is no way to enter this information for out of state sellers.
This has nothing to do with the not unsafe list.
This has nothing to do with the not unsafe list.
NavyLCDR
member
grndslm,
Sorry I seemed to indicate that you were getting on my case for suggesting what people do or not do. It actually wasn't you accusing me of that, it was the 4 time poster who decided he couldn't handle the truth and disappeared.
V/R,
John
Sorry I seemed to indicate that you were getting on my case for suggesting what people do or not do. It actually wasn't you accusing me of that, it was the 4 time poster who decided he couldn't handle the truth and disappeared.
V/R,
John
deadin
Member
hvengel,
That's what I understood you to say. However just a week or so ago there were several posts from California residents that indicated this isn't true.
I'm not from CA, so I cannot dispute your statement with any authority.
I guess I will have to accept it as stated unless someone else familiar with the CA laws wants to step up.
In the meantime, I guess I will list anything I have for sale as "Will not ship to CA." (or maybe "Cannot ship to CA".
That's what I understood you to say. However just a week or so ago there were several posts from California residents that indicated this isn't true.
I'm not from CA, so I cannot dispute your statement with any authority.
I guess I will have to accept it as stated unless someone else familiar with the CA laws wants to step up.
In the meantime, I guess I will list anything I have for sale as "Will not ship to CA." (or maybe "Cannot ship to CA".
Librarian
Member
hvengel has it right. As implemented (with no statutory authority) CA person-to-person sales can be completed only by CA residents at a CA FFL.
A CA PPT is exempt from the Handgun Roster; an interstate transfer into CA is not exempt, unless the buyer is exempt (primarily LEO).
A CA PPT is exempt from the Handgun Roster; an interstate transfer into CA is not exempt, unless the buyer is exempt (primarily LEO).
ServiceSoon
Member
Me so confused. The government is doing a very good job of making criminals out of peaceful citizens with no intent to do harm to others.
Mousegun
Member
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This question comes up a lot and I too have asked variations of it a few months back.
Navy LT came through with hoards of good information then as he does often when the question arises.
It is clear that he has researched the situation extensively and I honestly think he has it together when it comes to inter and intra state transfer of firearms.
Thanks for the information you are willing to provide and the many times you have provided it.
Just my humble opinion.
Navy LT came through with hoards of good information then as he does often when the question arises.
It is clear that he has researched the situation extensively and I honestly think he has it together when it comes to inter and intra state transfer of firearms.
Thanks for the information you are willing to provide and the many times you have provided it.
Just my humble opinion.
deadin
Member
OK. let's try this from another direction......
Can a California FFL01 (dealer) accept a shipment of a handgun (used, no longer in production) from another FFL01 in a different State? No "private party" transfer involved. It comes off of an out-of-state FFL's book and goes onto a California FFL's book.
The California FFL can then transfer (i.e. "sell") said handgun to a CA resident.
Does this work??
I'm asking because I'm about to list a Hammerli M162 Free Pistol on Gun Broker and want to know whether I can include California as somewhere I will sell to or not.
I will ship via a FFL on my end.
Can a California FFL01 (dealer) accept a shipment of a handgun (used, no longer in production) from another FFL01 in a different State? No "private party" transfer involved. It comes off of an out-of-state FFL's book and goes onto a California FFL's book.
The California FFL can then transfer (i.e. "sell") said handgun to a CA resident.
Does this work??
I'm asking because I'm about to list a Hammerli M162 Free Pistol on Gun Broker and want to know whether I can include California as somewhere I will sell to or not.
I will ship via a FFL on my end.
Librarian
Member
Depends.
In your case, the Hammerli 162 is exempted from the Handgun Roster by specific mention in PC 12132(h)(2).
Therefore, yes, you can do that.
The shipping FFL will also have to go through the idiocy of the CFLC; FFLs have posted on Calguns that the actual time involved is quite small, but it is an annoyance some find unacceptable.
If you were selling some handgun not on the Roster that was NOT excepted, you still could do that, but the buyer would have to be exempt from the Roster (primarily LEO).
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