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intimidated by getting into ak's.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by AcceptableUserName, Feb 25, 2010.

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  1. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    I'm looking to get into quality ak's. I've heard horror stories about Century Arms/WASR stuff but I don't know if that's elitism or what. I realize the AK isn't the most match grade accurate firearm in the world. It can have trigger slap, that's okay too. I just want a gun that'll do what it's supposed to, i.e. put lead downrange reliably and durably for as long as I'm alive and not blow up on me or develop headspace issues, etc. I guess at this point I'm more of an AK guy than an AR guy. I'd also like a weapon that has the warranty...but at the same time probably won't need it.

    This being said, what would you recommend? I want something cheap-moderately priced, durable and reliable with minimal guesswork. I am not one for patience or troubleshooting. Mag goes here, bolt pulls back, gun shoots. Repeat. I'd like something I can slightly modify, maybe witha folder, but I like the standard wood stocks too. I'm also open to the Saiga conversion idea, as long as YOU think it'll be reliable and PERMANENT modifications.

    Go!
     
  2. D Boone

    D Boone Member

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    Seems like you want an AK. Any type will do what you ask of it. Wasr's finish can be rough, but its ok. Goes bang every time, but if you choose one, just look for canted sights (both front and rear) and bull the bolt to see if the gas piston is on straight. If none of the above are present and the price is good, then buy! You can do anything to one of those that you could to any other ak with reguards to furniture etc. If you are intent on a folding stock, you might want to look at an underfolder (polish being my personal fav), or an AMD 65, maybe a Polish Tantal. Underfolder and or AMD will be stuck with the stock they have, no changing those. The AMD you won't be able to do much with the front end furniture unless you want a railed front. Saiga coversion is simple and fun if you have some technical ability and a little patience. In the end you will have a russian ak which is about as nice as it gets right now. The downside is the parts to really ak it up can be more expensive with regards to the front end furniture and front sight block/threaded bbl. If you are content with stock and pistol grip, high cap mags then you can convert for under $100. Don't forget the compliance trigger group parts. Finally some of the nicest AK's came in the early 90's but are pricey, again my personal favorite which I one day hope to own is a nice polytech underfolder/spike bayo. Look around, handle a lot, but with an AK your really with the furniture that comes on them, look at ironwood designs for a lot of wood furniture possibilities.

    Good Luck, lets see some pics when you decide.
     
  3. atlanticfire

    atlanticfire Member

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    First off, I don't like the idea of chopping up a Saiga to make an "AK" out of it. After owning many of them would not go back that road. I'm sure that comment is going to get all kinds of flack but take it or leave it. I would by the best AK that you can afford. There are many different types of receivers. Milled is best, the M70s also have a heavy receiver. Some AKs are labeled as 1mm and 1.6mm thick steel. Buy from a company that will allow you to buy and shoot the weapon and send it back if you have a problem with it or even simply don't like it. Also many dealers will provide warrant service if you do have an issue down the road, or at least contact the manufacture for you if there is an issue that’s not being taken care of.
     
  4. desidog

    desidog Member

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    Saiga.
     
  5. atlanticfire

    atlanticfire Member

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    Sigh.......typical
     
  6. lions

    lions Member

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    Nothing wrong with the WASR. It is ugly and has a poor finish but those things are in my definition of an AK.
    Yep, you want a WASR.
     
  7. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    WASR's are pretty plentiful locally at around 350 -400 in my area used. Probably not the BEST price, but it isn't terrible, is it?


    I'm not worried about cosmetics are fancy raile this and that, to each their own but that isn't me. I want a gun that's gonna live up to the durability, relianility, simplicity and firepower the AK is known for...


    if that's a WASR...fine by me....
     
  8. unit91

    unit91 Member

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    If you're on a budget, I'd recommend the Inter-Ordnance (commonly called "I.O. Inc") Liberty model. I've purchased two, paid $500 each, and love them both. They're accurate, use new barrels made by Mossberg, and I haven't had any problems with them. I will say both of mine have some machining marks on the receiver, but it doesn't affect the function.

    The biggest thing is to avoid canted sights / gas tubes (like atlanticfire said), and worn out barrels. IO Inc will fit the bill. There are better models out there, but I've found that the IO is a good middle-ground between a WASR and an Arsenal.
     
  9. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    what is an AK-47c?


    not to divert the thread or offend anyone here, but I'm probably going to end up selling a Doublestar M4gery I have to fund the AK project. So far the AR just isn't for me. I've shot and experienced a few now and to me it just requires too much guess work for my tastes. The entire feel is different to me and call me an ogre, I'm just needing an Ak, please. haha
     
  10. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    can someone recommend a good online site to purchase from? My local gunstore will do the FFL transfer.
     
  11. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    Getting into AK's is not hard at all. Just Google an AK website and read it all. It will give you all the info you need on it's history, operation, breakdown of parts as well as cleaning, and also how to sight it in and use the sight markings.

    Personally I have two AK's.
    One is a converted Saiga and the other is a cheap Romanian WASR which I stripped the furniture and restained it.
    They both function 100% percent and shoot about 3 MOA with Barnaul or Wolf Military Classic and recently I have been using PRIVPATZI. They open up with Golden Tiger to about 4 or so. This is from a bench of course, not offhand.
    They both look great especially after redoing the WASR's furniture but the Saiga's fit and finish is a bit nicer. WASR was $350 and Saiga ran around $400 but I did those before prices went crazy and the conversion was done by me.

    I nowadays would buy a WASR and redo the furniture. I never found the more expensive ones to give me anything more than a bit nicer finish which if was a real problem could be handled with a can of Duracote. It also has a side mount rail which makes mounting optics very easy. The milled receivers are said to be more accurate but I have never seen this to be true YMMV, I have only found them to be heavier and more money.

    I have always had good luck with Classicarms and you can get a Romanian Military version with shooters package delivered for about $440. They also have great customer service and would help if any problem arose with the rifle. When I ordered I asked about the cant and mag issues and was told that they give them a once over before shipping but she would make sure they took care of my rifle. It arrived with everything in line and no magazine wobble, at least no more than my Saiga has which comes from the original factory.



    http://www.classicarms.us/



    Information site to start at, they have a column on the right that will bring you to a ton of information and links from their that will bring you to others.

    http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/

    http://www.ak-47.us/



    Edited to Add:
    If you can get a WASR for 350-400 locally then you can chech it out to ensure their is no problems to begin with which is good. I would see if they are the Military version which comes with the slant cut instead of the nut screwed on and also a bayonet lug. The online people I sent you to for $440 plus your FFL fee give you the Military version with sling, 4 mags, mag pouch, bayonet, sling and case plus other small crap like oil bottle. If these extras don't matter then definitely look at your local shops, if having one with the extra little features that make Anit's scream matters then you may have to go online.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  12. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    Arsenal SGL-21... it is a factory FULL Saiga conversion (front and back). The major components are a high quality build straight out of Russia, and the conversion bits are done by the best mainstream AK company in the US. Personally I'd take one over a WASR every time, but either should be reliable.
     
  13. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    A WASR will do everything you stated in your first post, and do it at the lowest. A Saiga conversion will too. A converted Saiga is the best bang for the buck in terms of quality provided you get one at a decent price in the first place, do the work your self and pay a fair price for any parts.

    If you want a project then get the saiga if you want out of the box ready to go get the wasr. The "high end" AKs really don't justify their price IMO, and certainly not in terms of function.
     
  14. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    I agree Girodin. An Ak, by nature is supposed to be cheap, or at least affordable, relatively, for the buyer...


    Basically, I want a lot of firepower, that I can put on target REASONABLY, thats the keyword..

    not worried about mag wobble, noise, trigger slap...all these things to me seem like luxuries. I'm not in the market for luxuries. If I can bypass them great, but theyre not hundreds of dollar type differences to me.

    what is NOT negotiable is that the round goes bang like a mutha, will go through hell if need be, minimal jams, won't break, give me fits, etc...I'm honestly ok with 5-10" MOA, you know, CM sized groupings


    so upon further eval, you guys still think im ok with a WASR?



    if I was a rich guy I'd probably want to stick with the AR, but im on a pretty tight budget and I want something I don'
    t want to worry about fouling up, the gas block shooting loose, etc...not too worried about that wuith the AK whereas my m4gery...yeah, a little concerned
     
  15. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    You would be perfect for a WASR. Enjoy
     
  16. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    There is nothig magical about the gas blocks on AKs.

    If you don't care about the potential issues you mentioned, and are just looking for reliability at the lowest price, the WASR is your gun.
     
  17. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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  18. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    You'll get far more for your money with a Saiga.

    The WASRs are built from recycled and rejected military parts, and you just don't know what you're gonna end up with.

    The Saiga is brand new production, using many 1st quality military parts (it is a "sporting rifle"). No "seconds" or "rejected for military use" parts in it. The Saiga is also cheaper.
     
  19. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    Found the Romanian specific website, great to review no matter what AK you choose.

    http://www.novarata.net/Linx310/model.htm



    The two you are looking at are good. The AK47c I don't have any experience with but Atlantic Firearms is good so with the lifetime warranty any issues would be covered.
    The second one you posted is the same as the one from ClassicArms. It's about a hundred dollars more than Classic and fifty bucks less if you get the shooters package with free shipping.
     
  20. unit91

    unit91 Member

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    Yeah, I'm not sure why IO adds the "C" to all their model names. I also own an AUSA / RPG Arms AK and all the IO parts are interchangeable with the it. Maybe their own versioning nomenclature on the furniture configuration? The steel is all the same as what you and I would think of as an AK-47 (which is actually an AKM).
     
  21. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    The Arsenal SGLs seem to have a good reputation.

    If you may want to have a folder you pretty much need to go that route from the first Both the underfolders and left side folders require a different receiver. Of the various types of folders I'd only want the left side folder or the solid stock. The left side folder doesn't adversely effect cheekweld and locks up solid.

    Underfolders have poor cheekweld and a tendency to go wobbly. The right side wire folders are pretty miserable in the cheekweld department too.

    My Arsenal SLR107FR. BSW

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Hizzie

    Hizzie Member

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    Get a WASR. Not that GP1975. Check for:
    Front Sight Cant
    Gas Block Cant
    Rear Sight Block Cant
    Magazine Fit (try several mags-they should lock up tight and not droop in the rear)

    This is the most bang for the buck. You can customize at will. Pretty much ANY furniture or flash hider (14mm LH) will work as long as you keep 922r parts count in mind.

    Steel surplus mags work just fine. US Palm makes a USA made AK mag that is getting good reviews. In regards to ammo. Try severals brands/bullet weights/styles to find out what your gun likes. Get an AK sight tool.
     
  23. unit91

    unit91 Member

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    That's a beautiful rifle, BSW. I didn't see much of the typical silver arc under your safety. Do they put in extra clearance between the arm and the receiver, or was that a pre-abuse photo? Again, though, congrats on the awesome-looking rifle.
     
  24. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Ive had 2 WASR rifles. The first one I bought iwhen I was senior in high school had a problem. The mag well was reall rough and didnt like to release mags. A little TLC with a file solved this.

    My second one a couple years ago was great right out of the box.

    Both were very reliable weapons and were accurate enough out to say 2-300 yards.
     
  25. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Those pics are post Duracoating. I really should take some more of how it looks now after a few hundred rounds and a couple rifle matches.

    [​IMG]

    BSW
     
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