Intruder On Property

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Good Ol' Boy, Aug 30, 2022.

  1. Night Rider

    Night Rider Member

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    They (theoretically) don't allow it around here.

    Every Walmart that I am aware of in Colorado Springs is posted "No camping. No overnight parking."

    Having said that, let me clarify I'm not talking about people parking overnight in Walmart parking lot I am talking about setting up camp.
     
  2. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    That's more telling about you than him. I am actually really surprised by this comment.

    Even if you don't like the video his content has done a lot of good for our community.

    "With friends like these..."


    I thought the video was a good reminder that this kind of thing can happen to you.
     
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  3. Night Rider

    Night Rider Member

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    I'm not really a fan of Warrior/Poet Society. I don't really have anything against it, it just doesn't interest me.

    Having said that, this guy makes his living generating YouTube content. We don't even know for sure that this story even happened or if it did that it happened the way he said it did.

    Just going by what he said, I mean approaching trespassers at work was part of my job. I never once ordered any of them to put their hands up. I was kind of picky about telling them to keep their hands visible but I never attempted to order anyone to put their hands up. That just seems like odd behavior to me even in that specific context.

    Finally, I'm certainly not going to put you in my car and take you to the hospital. That's just asking for trouble that doesn't need to be asked for. It's also (in my non-legal expert opinion) opening yourself up to liability that you don't need to open yourself up to.

    Like I said not really a fan of Warrior/Poet and this video didn't do anything to change my mind on that
     
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  4. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    In the video, he comes across to me as well meaning, but imprudent, irresponsible, and dangerous.

    Would you care to elucidate? I've never watched any of it.

    I don't think I really need anyone's "this happened to me" tale to remind me that some trespasser may surprise me.

    I do carry when I can.
     
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  5. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Neat.

    Your ignorance is on you.

    I am genuinely surprised that a moderator on a gun forum would be new to this guy.

    Congrats? Maybe it's not just about you? IDK

    Good.
     
  6. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Where I lived in Cali became a NOT "good area". I was always armed in the house and at night I slept with my gun in a bed holster and my flashlight lanyarded to my support-hand wrist. Couldn't put security film on the windows there because they were the old-fashioned kind with actual wood dividers, which a guy could easily break by punching, and I refused to put bars on the windows. So a moron could have gotten into my bedroom within a few seconds. I practiced dry-firing while using the flashlight lying down in bed. Here in a non-metropolis city in AZ the environment is thank G-d much safer and I have the security film and other hardening, for example security doors over all the exterior doors (which make it possible to open the wood door to talk to someone outside without them being able to get in) and bolts securing the garage door to the walls to prevent defeating the opener, altogether likely sufficient to persuade a garden-variety BG to look for another house... but I am also set up in case of a mob and thanks to the hardening have enough time to be ready to defend myself. I do carry when I take out my trash if it's after dark.
     
  7. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Is that their dog or yours?
     
  8. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I've watched some of his videos over the years, he's not one of my favorites but he's good when he sticks to stuff like how to shoot various firearms.
     
  9. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That's not helpful.

    I did just a little browsing. A Special Ops war vet teaching some weapons related stuff, some good...

    ...he presumes to field questions such as queries about what might constitute the biggest mistakes that people make in self defense. What qualifies him to try to answer that one?

    Combat and civilian self defense are by no means the same thing.

    Pointing a gun at a trespasser without good reason is extremely unwise. Telling someone to put up his hands, absent indications of an imminent threat of serious harm, can get one into a lot of trouble.

    Transporting a sick stranger to a hospital entails a lot of potential liability , but it's a judgment call. Hight speed driving? NO!

    I don't know much about Lovell, but I now know enough to look elsewhere for advice on handling civilian encounters,
     
  10. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Funny, I thought exactly the same about the comment I quoted.

    Again... Doesn't sound like you would know...

    Seeing as how you've never heard of him. You just cast judgement on what you don't know about.

    On this we can agree. You may have simply posted this analysis.

    The comment that spurred this little back and forth was off topic, ignorant and a waste of time. Maybe next time just stick with what the OP was about?

    Do as you like.

    I would encourage a moderator on a gun forum to familiarize themselves a bit with the content before making comments about the creator.

    It is wild to me how quick the community is to tarnish the people who are on our side and advance our rights and hobbies.
     
  11. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I really like John Lovell and most of his material but he way over reacted on this one. I wouldn't expect someone with John's background to have an adrenaline dump from a simple trespasser who hadn't done anything hostile or violent.

    I don't always wear a gun while working around the farm but if I had it nearby like John did, I would keep it with in reach but I wouldn't point it at anyone. Once figuring out that it was a medical emergency I'd get the guy as cool and comfortable as I could outside and call 911 for an ambulance and most likely in my area the police would come as well. No need to point a gun at anyone here and I definitely wouldn't bring them in my house or car.

    Say what you like about Lovell, but he was pretty transparent about calling himself out for his poor response. Most people here haven't been in a similar situation so it's best to take the learning point and move on without judgement
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
  12. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I have hurricane (impact) windows and a electronic alarm, but the electronic alarm is not as good as my German Shepherd & Bullmastiff, IMO.
     
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  13. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I have now. and those were fool moves.
     
  14. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Depends. There are still places where phones don't work. I live 18 miles from the nearest cell phone service and frequent areas where service is many hours away.
     
  15. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Anybody trying to break into my house would by definition be making a lot of noise. I won't sleep through that.

    I'd love to have a dog but I don't think I can properly take care of one any more. So I enjoy other folks dog photos. :)
     
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  16. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I had the same reaction when I saw the video the day he posted it. His response was, to put it mildly, over the top. I've really wondered if the video wasn't some kind of a joke. My impression of his confession that he screwed up, was that he felt he screwed up by the fact the guy got onto his property. I don't know John Lovell, I've never trained with him. I always thought he was probably a competent trainer. However after watching that video I wonder if his classes aren't geared towards the wannabe commando? There are a few trainers in the community who see the wannabes as their audience.
     
  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Theirs.
     
  18. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    One thing I can understand is his son being on the porch within striking distance of the MH (meth head). I don't have kids but I can understand drawing down on a stranger that looks like a MH on my rural property who's in arms length of a family member. Obviously opinions will vary on that but thankfully that's also one of the nice things about living in the country. Alot of times, what happens in the country stays in the country. So long as you don't make a video about it and post it on the internet for everyone to see.

    Him transporting the guy to the hospital was super stupid and doesn't make any sense. He was on the phone with local authorities and could've just waited for them to show up.

    Add to that being unarmed until he got to his vehicle just seems like a recipe for disaster.

    I'll say it again, doesn't matter if you live rural, always carry. Whether you're window shopping in your small town or mucking stalls at the property, it should be the same gear all the time.
     
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  19. Scrapiron45

    Scrapiron45 Member

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    After watching the video a little closer I realized that what when John heard his son yelling for him what he saw was a dirty stranger on his front porch between him and his children. At that point he was still far enough away not to realize the man's drug induced condition and probably saw only a direct threat to the children. After considering the fact that Lovell teaches sit awareness classes and is fully aware of the monsters out there I'm gonna cut him a little slack on his immediate reaction since he did put the shotgun aside as soon as he had a grasp of the situation.
     
  20. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    The fact this John Lovell guy was driving 110 mph in a 40 mph zone (with overdosed stranger in passenger seat) makes me question anything he has to say about safety, security, and risk mitigation. He endangered innocents.
     
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  21. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    I used to think that.

    When my wife and I were first married we slept through a burglary.

    Guy entered our home and took our stuff while we slept in the next room. We were/are very lucky.
     
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  22. Tilos

    Tilos Member

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    Yeh, and the way I see it, his kid was in the area when he pointed that shotgun at the tweeker too.
    Not a good thing,
    jmo,
    .
     
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  23. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Complete overreaction. What was the clue his children were in enough danger that warranted the threat of deadly force? That the guy was poorly dressed and dirty?

    I guess he draws down on shabby looking strangers who get too close to his kids in the big box store too? He needs to work on learning the law and on judgement. His decision to point his shotgun on the intruder and pretend he was a cop making a felony stop was 100% wrong and quite probably illegal. He never once articulated why the guy was a threat that called for the use of deadly force. If it really happened that way he panicked. It was either panic or hubris.
     
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  24. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    How did he get into your home?

    Here nobody can get in through any doors, the only way in is to smash the security-film protected glass, which goes like this actual security-cam video:


    Here's the test video on the 3M website:
     
  25. Night Rider

    Night Rider Member

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    I watched the whole video and maybe I misunderstood what I heard but I was under the impression that he approached the meth head with the gun in hand but I never heard him say that he aimed it at the guy.

    I'm sure the Legal Eagles will be along any second to let us all know that he didn't actually have to point the gun at the guy for it to be felony menacing but I never got any impression that he was actually aiming the shotgun at the meth head.

    The one thing I did notice is that throughout the video he said two or three times "I could have done this better but I don't want to." or "This might have been a better reaction but I don't want to do that."

    OK, well not " being prepared to do that" bit you in the ass bro.

    There's a lesson in there if you look for it
     
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