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Iraq report on Militec gun lube products

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Preacherman, Mar 7, 2006.

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  1. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    The following was received via the API List, and is reproduced here with permission from the original poster there. I thought our members might find it interesting.

    The author of the report is a Sergeant in the USMC.

     
  2. MartinS

    MartinS Member

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    Very interesting, thanks. Just mixed up a quart of Ed's Red with Mobil ATF but I do not argue with Devil Dogs.
     
  3. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    I used it a couple times without complaint. Then my sample evaporated out of the bottle somehow. Beats me where it went? I asked the kid... He knows nothing. Thinking of renaming him Schultz.
     
  4. 'Card

    'Card Member

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    Sounds like Slick 50 for guns.
     
  5. proud2deviate

    proud2deviate Member

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    Militech comes very highly recomended for lubing the pivots in balisongs (butterfly knives.) Most people bake it on with a hair dryer or heat gun. Heat is apparently essential to the application process.
     
  6. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    Thats what I think too. Although I'm sure snake oil is an excellent lubricant :D
     
  7. gudel

    gudel Member

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    I agree. Baking is for bread, not guns.
     
  8. mons meg

    mons meg Member

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    Interesting, but maybe not practical for *most* people in a combat zone to worry about baking on a lube with a few hundred rounds at the range. Maybe unit armorers and supply pogies... ;)

    I've said it before, in dusty dry conditions CLP works fine as a dry lube if you apply a light coat to the appropriate parts per your M16A2 operator's manual. Is Militech a superior dry lube? Probably, if you follow the manufacturer's instructions. But look at your user base. It's much easier for squad/platoon leaders to make sure individual soldiers or Marines aren't glopping the CLP on than to rotate all their weapons through "bake-on" procedures. Unless, of course, your bake-on is built into your daily patrol in a hot zone.
     
  9. chopinbloc

    chopinbloc Member

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    we have been unable to get militech issued where i'm at in afghanistan but a user on this forum told me the company will send a free "sample" to troops deployed OCUNUS. well, they do but it's not exactly a sample, they sent me about an eight ounce bottle of the stuff. i concur with the fact that it can often be difficult to get range time to cook in the stuff but what we did was just glop it on and leave the weapon in the sun. the stuff works well but my bottle walked after the first time i used it.:scrutiny: anyway, congrats to militech and i'll definitely support them by purchasing their products in the future.
     
  10. joebogey

    joebogey Member

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    I use it on and in my guns as well as in my 01 Silverado truck and my wife's car.
    My truck had a habit of jerking when shifting, but after one dose of Miltec it straightened right up.

    I use the wife's hair dryer to heat it after it's applied to my guns.
     
  11. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I like militec stuff, especially the grease for my Garand. I'll have to give the oil a second look, I never really used it because it smells so bad.
     
  12. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    I use it, like it, and recommend it. Definitely makes clean up easier.
     
  13. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    I have been using this product...

    for several years now. The grease is the best I have ever used. The lube is first rate too. However, I cannot shoot enough to "bake" it in as the article says..........Militec and LPS.....my favorites.....chris3
     
  14. 444

    444 Member

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    -I have used their oil and found it worked fine. My uses are not demanding enough to know if it is better than anything else or not.

    What is the source of this article ? I know it says the guy is an sergent in the USMC, but is this guy known to you personally or is this just something making the rounds on the internet ? Or is it taken from a sales website ?
    Just curious, since so many of these articles make the rounds that are reported to be from some soldier in Iraq.
    As a side note, I have never read one of these articles reported to be from a soldier in Afganistan or anywhere other than Iraq.
     
  15. 'Card

    'Card Member

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    The sergeant says "You must get the residue off the parts before you apply the Militech as the product needs to be in contact with the base metal."

    I wonder if having a rifle that had been parkerized would interfere with that bonding process? I would assume it doesn't, simply because I think the military still parkerizes (or a similar treatment) most of its weapons, but the line did sort of jump out at me.
     
  16. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    444, the API List is not the place where one finds junk information being circulated. In this case, the author, a USMC sergeant, was personally known to a member of the List, and did an after-action report at his request for List members. I reckon it's as good as gold.
     
  17. 444

    444 Member

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    Ok, you got it off the API list. That is all I was asking.
    I quit subscribing to it some time back, so I missed it.
     
  18. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Militec is fine as a lubricant, but that's about it.

    I've done my own salt-spray corrosion test, and using Militec is just a tiny bit better than using nothing.

    Of all the oils and other things I tested, only CLP defeated the rusting process. And did so with amazing results. Stuff really does work. The big dissapointments were TW-25b and Militec. Even RemOil, Mobil 1 synthetic, Outers oil (that clear stuff) and WD-40 did better....

    Guys in Iraq don't have to worry too much about humidity and corrorsion I bet. Seems like Militec is nothing more than the heat-activated additives found in quality synthetic motor oils. Penetrates metal and makes the surfaces slicker.
     
  19. 444

    444 Member

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    I have no sophisticated testing process, but I do have a couple personal observations.

    I have been using TW-25 based upon the recomendation of Gunsite. In fact, I bought the two tubes I have of it at the Gunsite Pro-Shop. During the two carbine classes I took at Gunsite, they passed out sample tubes of TW-25. They said that in their experience (which is considerable) in the hot/super hot desert climate of Arizona, it proved to be the best lubricant they had tried. I have taken two carbine classes at Gunsite as well as three carbine classes at Frontsight (far hotter than Gunsite). I am starting to question the use of TW-25 grease in colder weather. It seemed to work fine for me during these real hot classes, but over the past several months I have had some problems. About half way through the training day, I started getting malfunctions. When I looked at my bolt, it was covered in real heavy sludge. I never had that happen before. So, I am looking for something new to try. I do have a small bottle of Miltech and have used it, and don't have anything to report on it.
    FWIW, in formal classes (500 or more rounds/day) I have used all manner of lubes from regular petroleum based oils to highly touted stuff. Never had a problem in hot weather with any of them.
    I have been thinking about just going back to Breakfree. It has always worked for me.
     
  20. 444

    444 Member

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    I went to the miltec website. They had a copy of this Iraq equipment report that I am sure everyone here read a dozen times over the last couple years. http://www.militec-1.com/OperationIraqiFreedom.pdf
    Here is what it said about lube:
    Lubricant: Soldiers provided consistent comments that CLP was not a good choice for weapon's maintenance in this environment. The sand is a fine as talcum powder here. The CLP attracted the sand to the weapon. Soldiers considered a product called Militec to be a much better solution for lubricating individual and crew-served weapons.


    A totally unrelated comment in this same report that caught my eye:
    M4: Soldier's were very satisfied with this weapon. It performed well in a demanding environment......................................The M4 with PEQ and PAC provided overmatch over our threat equipped with AK47s and RPGs.

    Instead of interviewing soldiers deployed in a combat area about weapons, they should have interviewed the internet commandos and got the real story.
     
  21. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    TW-25b is pure GARBAGE. I don't care what Gunsite thinks about it. For them to push a product like that makes me suspect their expertise.

    I used to use TW-25b on my pistol. I never had a problem really, it lubricated well, and it did minimize wear. Whenever I'd shoot, I'd clean my firearms immediately after. I would reapply it, and my pistol would usually stay inside my house for a month before I would go to the range again.

    A family member of mine used this on his pistol. I gave him a tube to use. He doesn't shoot as often as I do. He cleaned his firearm (a 1911) and applied the TW-25b. He keeps this particular pistol in his trunk. Note, this is Florida, trunks can get up to 140 degrees easily, and it is very humid. After 1 month, not a day more, he took out his 1911, tried to cycle it, and it was gummed up beyond belief.


    The TW-25b turned into muck. It hardened and dried up. It was like a thin layer of caulking...kind of rubbery. If you've ever taken off an old CPU from a computer's motherboard, and saw the old, sticky, hard heatsink paste...that's exactly what it was like. It took a wirebrush and a couple of hours to get it all out. I was shocked when I heard this, and when I saw it, I was quite disappointed.


    He didn't apply too much, or too little. If anything, I apply much more to my pistol (HK USP) and never had this happen. The key difference, is that my firearm was kept indoors where it is cool and there is low humidity. His was not fired once, but was kept in a quality lined gun case, in his trunk.


    For me, TW-25b has failed the ultimate test. It has failed to even remain a lubricant. It actually is worse than other lubes that dry up, at least those vanish, this became a caulk-like deposit on the internals. When I saw his firearm, I took mine out, blasted it with brake-cleaner, got it spotless, then applied CLP and have never looked back.

    I still have a tube and a half left. Been keeping it around incase I need to ever lube something not-important. What a waste of $.
     
  22. 444

    444 Member

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    Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not trying to draw any conclusions about you or your friend. This is just a harmless discussion of gun lubricants.
    But..................
    I have used TW-25 on guns in hot weather. I have used it on AR15s, shooting from dawn until dusk with temperature highs of over 110 degrees not including the heat generated by firing the weapon. I never had a problem with TW-25 in hot weather. The instructors at Gunsite see hundreds, if not thousands of carbines come through their classes annually, all of which fire about 2000 rounds/week. In addition, the Gunsite instructors I am talking about have mucho experience elsewhere. Just to name a few of the instructors I had in these two classes were Pat Rogers, Louis Awerbuck, and Jeff Gonzales. Forget Gunsite, these guys are in daily contact with elite military units, all have been in combat in various wars etc. You will never hear me saying that I don't care what they say.
    Even you yourself have never had a problem with this lube.
    But, a friend of yours had a problem which he told you was related to TW-25 and now you announce on a worldwide forum that it is junk ?


    One thing that I should add to my previous post is that I am now using a suppressor which fouls the weapon many times worse than firing the weapon without it. I am sure it plays a significant role in the malfunctions.
     
  23. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    I never had a problem with it when applied fresh and when in use. He wasn't a friend, he was family, and I personally handled and helped clean this gummed up firearm. This stuff is bad-news if you intend on storing a firearm in a hot environment for a month. If you clean your firearm, apply this stuff, shoot it (like I did, for 300+ rounds pistol) and then clean, no problem. However, I wouldn't store a firearm with it anymore.


    YMMV.
     
  24. Wags

    Wags Member

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    It works

    I use it on all my auto's including my Auto-5. It works great but not the greatest for a rust inhibitor.
     
  25. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    Buzz, buzz

    Looks like buzz to me.

    Poor rust prevention
    http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

    Read past the howling pro-miltech propaganda to what follows.;
    http://www.defensereview.com/article377.html

    "Dust tests with exposure times of one hour, three hours, six hours, seven hours and eight hours were conducted with military and commercially available lubricants applied to M16A1 rifles. CLP provided the best overall performance with one stoppage in five dust tests. VV-L-800 finished second with three stoppages in five dust tests. Other top finishers were Brand D with three stoppages in four dusts tests, Brand C with seven stoppages in five dust tests and Brand E (Militec) with eight stoppages in five dust tests. The three top finishers were liquid lubricants. Although it appeared that more dust accumulated on the exposed exterior surfaces of bolt carriers with liquid lubricants than on bolt carriers with dry film lubricants, the liquid lubricants had more success overcoming friction caused by dust intrusion.
     
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