Irritated

Status
Not open for further replies.

hso

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
65,925
Location
0 hrs east of TN
Blade Magazine had a short piece on their website about shop safety for makers and much of their advice was fine, but when I read a recommendation to use a full face respirator if you had a beard I got really irritated.

A negative pressure respirator has to seal against the face to allow you to PULL the air you're breathing through the FILTER. If it doesn't have a tight seal then you pull air through the easiest route for the air to get into the mask. A bushy beard means you're not getting a tight seal and you're breathing through...your beard. http://multimedia.3m.com/…/…/facial-hair-and-respirators.pdf If you have a beard then you really aren't going to get a good seal with a tight fitting face piece so you should go with a powered respirator that pulls air through a filter and blows the filtered air into the mask (PAPR). Those aren't cheap, but at least they don't deceive you into thinking you are being properly protected. You can find PAPRs on the secondary market for a lot less than new. Alternately you can try the devices that you breath through your mouth like a snorkel that have a filter. They're not respirators by OSHA/NIOSH standards so they're not regulated. Be sure you buy something that uses standard P100 cartridges from a legitimate respirator manufacturer like 3M, Moldex, Uvex, Honeywell/North, MSA. Oh and the cartridges are all made to fit their respirator to keep from getting bad fits and poor seals that leak. Getting the correct cartridge for the hazard is important and it is YOUR responsibility to learn what your hazards are and what type cartridge is needed. Most of the time you're trying to keep dust out of your lungs from grinding so a P95 type will work, but if you're welding you may want to up the protection to a P100. If you're dealing with solvents you want to switch to an organic vapor cartridge. Like trying to use a hammer for a screwdriver, not all cartridges do the same job. https://www.osha.gov/…/respiratory_protection_bulletin_2011…. The other thing they don't talk about is a tight fitting respirator has to fit you. If it doesn't fit it gaps and if it gaps... Learn how to do the field test for the thing so you're breathing through and not around the filters. You also have to keep them clean. I'm always amazed when I'm in a shop and a maker is meticulous about cleaning the piece they're working on and they have their respirator hanging on a nail collecting all sorts of crap INSIDE the piece like kittly litter in a cat crap pan. Clean your breathing pro every time you use it, inside and out, and put it in something sealed up. Preferably outside of the area you're generating all that dust/fume/vapor. If you're really smart, you want to keep these contaminants out of your shop altogether so working outdoors or using a ventilation system that pulls them away and throws them outside (away from your AC pulling air into the shop) is best. Be cautious that some powders are going to be combustible (sparks) and if they accumulate in your ventilation system they can be a fire hazard. Ti is particularly nasty for this, but if you've ever seen steel wool burn then you can really understand that steel can burn if in a fine enough form. Blade has brought up a good topic, but they obviously didn't have a health and safety professional review their article.
 
Last edited:
PPE gets frustrating.
Especially if you go in an educate yourself on just what the how & why are.
And, you then see folk just "going through the motions." Or, over-generalizing when making prescriptive assertions.
Or, people "penny pinching" and just finding th echeaest way to look like they are in compliance.

Then, there is the "it ain't kilt me yet" crowd. Sigh.
Literally five minutes ago, I was reading a thread in a different forum where there was a discussion on using MEK to weld polystyrene. Non-dilute MEK is some ugly, if effective, chemistry. Which was rightly pointed out in the responses. But, naturally, there was the one dude who was all "I'm 70 y/o and have always used the stuff, and I'm not dead yet." Sadly, coincidence is not evidence; yet gets treated that way.
 
Then, there is the "it ain't kilt me yet" crowd.
Experience is a hard teacher, but some will accept no other.

Otto von Bismarck said that: "The wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Fools learn from experience."

I would say that von Bismarck is off a little bit. Here's how I would adjust his statement:

Smart people learn from the mistakes of others. Normal people learn from their own mistakes. Fools just never learn. This is pretty close to an old Russian proverb.
 
I set through hours of classes yearly on this. From outside air, to full scba, to canisters, to pleats plus and 8511 type.... very exciting stuff.
 
Loveless never used a mask and I saw a pic of Brend today grinding with no mask. I didn't go that far but it was way to hot for a respirator, plus I usually had a beard, so I just used a dust mask. Spent 10 yrs grinding and don't see any ill effects - I did almost die in July '17 when I couldn't breath but I think that was 99% smoking related. Now I don't smoke and have no problems, but I like to see people protect themselves best they can.
 
It's one thing for a person to ignore or give lip service to safety on an individual basis. I'll never criticize folks for the individual decisions they make regarding their personal safety.

It's another entirely for a respected publication to make recommendations and give advice that is not good practice.

I work in an industry that deals with refineries and petrochem plants. In an active facility we are required to be clean-shaven in case we need to use a mask. Literally, they will look at your face and if needed make you go to a guest bathroom where they have disposable razors and shaving cream for your use. Even the truckers who deliver stuff must abide. Or else you will not be allowed within the refinery boundaries.

I get that the situation is a little different, but we aren't talking apples and oranges here. If we are talking PPE it better be serious, and right.
 
You have to be clean shaven where the facepiece seal contacts the face. No hair at all at the points it contacts the face.

I shave to wear one and you can make a moustache and goatee work if kept trimmed up and shaved under the chin high enough.
 
You have to be clean shaven where the facepiece seal contacts the face. No hair at all at the points it contacts the face.

I shave to wear one and you can make a moustache and goatee work if kept trimmed up and shaved under the chin high enough.
Sad they don't make one that works with,facial hair!
 
I have worn a respirator before and we were told in no uncertain terms to ensure a proper fit. If you had facial hair the choice was either shave or wear the PAPR style respirator. I made sure to wear it when required and even when just recommended. Fumes and dust are no joke and can/will cause severe respiratory issues. I do get frustrated when I get poor advice, especially when the advice is from a reputable source and can endanger my health.
 
I wouldn't consider Blade to be a reputable source on its own and having an author quote from a retailer that isn't a specialist in respiratory protection equipment is always suspect. I just couldn't let the stupid statement that you can wear any tight fitting negative pressure respirator with facial hair interfering with the seal between the "rubber" and the face go. As a 30 year health & safety professional it makes me furious when people who don't know anything about respiratory protection say dangerous things.

If you want to keep a beard then your option is some sort of loose fitting hood or helmet PAPR like the below to provide the protective factor advertised. The advantage to many of these is they will provide the facial protection at the grinder. Expensive, sure, but your lungs and your health are supposed to be of value to you.

5933625-21.jpg 4192726-21.jpg
4192720-21.jpg
4094545-21.jpg

You could use the below, but you'd want to wear safety glasses under it and not use it doing hot work.
7235514-24.jpg
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top