Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by sharpshooter74, May 24, 2009.
For the record, right now if you want any .45 ammo, buy what ever you can find.
I have not seen a box of WWB for sale locally this year!
du-uh! You think?
Many will disagree, but in this case a FMJ is just fine.
might expand to .45", but a .45 isn't going to get smaller.
A HP would probably be better, but a FMJ is sufficient.
KRS, nice pic of a flattened FMJ. Metal plate or rocks? Against soft targets, esp as small as a man, they'll just punch on through and go mostly undeformed.
more than adequate.
Granting that deer are not enraged thugs on pcp i can nonetheless assert that deer hit in the forward 1/3 by that 230 gr fmj went down right now.
More than a few would attest to that were they able to speak.
From my experience, I would certainly consider the cartridge adequate.
In the world of ball ammo .45 is still king
I have speer lawman FMJ and gold dot hollow both in 230 grains.
I like heavy and slow. The low drag high speed has it's place too.. but down in the South things are just plain slow the way it's done right.
I believe it was the Marines who used the gun in the 1911 form early in the 1900's to drop narcotic crazed attackers in time of war.
However, vastly superior to being empty.
Whatever WWB you have, you can always use it for target ammo when you can buy better self defense rounds.
I would consider the WWB a stopgap measure until you can get better self defense ammunition. Will it work? Well, it is a .526 ounce bullet traveling at 835 FPS with 356 lbs of muzzle energy. That's pretty potent out of a handgun and the 230 gr FMJ was the issue round for the .45 for the military. (I'm not sure what the contract specs were for that round.)
Whatever you have, you can always shoot the WWB for target practice later. It's not like it will go bad in your lifetime.
With todays situation with ammunition, I'd much rather spend X amount of money for a 50 rd box of 230 FMJs than the same amount of money for a 20 rd box of HPs that isn't enough to fill three magazines...especially if my practice/training had been with the 230 FMJs and the HP dependability was yet to be determined ...
Blah blah blah. I am sure the FMJ would still stop me with one shot. And no, I won't volunteer to test that theory!
I'm not sure what 230gr advocates think the advantage of weight is in such a round, but anytime you can get a hollowpoint to open up, it's going to increase the stopping power. With a 230gr FMJ, you're not going to get much expansion unless you hit a hip or skull. With lighter bullets, you'll get more velocity, a good chance for expansion, a better temporary wound channel and less recoil. Add a little more velocity to it (in the form of +P), and it's even better.
I have a friend who not only fought in Korea, he wrote a book on the fighting ability of various foreign troops there. In the cold northern areas where the Chinese troops wore heavy clothing, there were many cases where they'd find bodies, pierced with machine gun ammo, but with multiple .45 ACP ammo lodged in the quilt-like coats. It was the machine gun fire that killed them, but it's the .45 bullets that didn't make it through that interested the military.
I've talked to, and read about, a number of soldiers who didn't feel that the .45 ACP ammo lived up to its larger-than-life reputation. And though I don't go so far as to worthless (which a lot of these guys unfortunately concluded), I will say there's a lot of BS that accompanies the .45 ACP folklore.
My friend (above) also told me that the Colt 1911s jammed repeatedly in cold weather. This was no fault of the gun or the ammo—just the fact that it was bitter cold and lubrication, being what it ain't, just wasn't doing the job.
Until recently, I thought all the military guys would have preferred .45 Colt autos, but a friend of mine who just got back from a third tour to Iraq, said that with a choice of firepower over stopping power, that it would be firepower every time. If they used their 9mm Berettas, they wanted full magazines and the ability to throw a lot of lead at the enemy.
So not everything's as clear cut as one might think. And as far as the military trials went, just remember that they were comparing FMJs against FMJs. Had they changed the 9mm to JHPs, the results could have been far, far different.
That being said, I have heard and read alot of stuff during the Korean conflict that I quite frankly have a hard time believing. I was a soldier, and not all troops are equipment hounds or know much about firearms and balistics. I read a book once about an infantry officer in Korea who said the .45ACP was a poor manstopper but that the military issue
.38 special would drop a charging Chinaman DRT every time! Come on now.
I do not believe that the .45 ACP is a superior round for penetration, because it is not. However, I also do not believe that if I put on a quilted Chinese uniform it is the same as body armor for .45 ACP ammo. I suspect, that someone was shooting at these enemy soldiers way outside of the effective range of the round, even from a Thompson or grease gun. I do not know, but a .45 ACP hardball round fired from a subgun, would probably not have enough "umph" to poke through one of these uniforms. But I could be wrong there too!
I am not an operator, nor do I play one on TV, so my opinions, which are just that, may be wrong. I will continue to trust the .45 ACP round, even in it's hardball form, even when I carry in the winter and people tend to wear coats!
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