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Is 38 Spcl +P safe in a S&W Model 65 357 Magnum?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by gfanikf, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. gfanikf

    gfanikf Member

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    Pretty sure it is (just more wear and tear), but I wanted to make sure if possible.

    Thanks!
     
  2. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    .38 Special +P doesn't even approach .357 Magnum pressures and recoil forces. Perfectly safe.
     
  3. Carne Frio

    Carne Frio Member

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    Yes, it is safe.
     
  4. Checkman

    Checkman member

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    The 38+P topic is the new 45acp vs. 9mm topic. :)

    Yes it's fine to shoot 38 +P in the Model 65. I shoot 38 +P+ in mine.
     
  5. gfanikf

    gfanikf Member

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    Thanks! I figured as much, but I'd rather take a few extra minutes to be sure than to find out the hard way!

    The gun is really nice built and in pretty good shape, for $299 I felt it was a steal (especially with the original wooden S&W grips).

    I was actually wondering about the +P+ stuff, but since it really is outside any normal pressure standards, I'm a tad hesitant.
     
  6. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Who would have thought that in 1971 when they changed the boxes on the regular 38 special ammo to say "+P" that anyone would fall for it?

    Like slapping "GTO" on a Yaris and people wondering if it is too much power for the public roadways.

    (shaking my head in disbelief)
     
  7. gfanikf

    gfanikf Member

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    I'd rather ask and seem silly, than not and seem dead if I'm wrong. :)
     
  8. Dain Bramage

    Dain Bramage Member

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    I blame you 1971 guys for not calling them on it.

    That and the Mustang II. And leisure suits. And disco.
     
  9. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    gfanikf

    Please don't take any offense.

    I was not aiming this at you but rather the whole "+P" thing. This is a reoccurring theme. (weekly at least on THR)

    Please do not ever hesitate to ask a question. We all can learn something new. (heck, I spent 30 minutes yesterday asking reloading questions at a store yesterday...so I am no exception)

    If you are interested in researching the "+P phenomenon" more, our very own SaxonPig wrote a great piece on the subject.

    http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html

    Best of luck

    :D
     
  10. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Dain Bramage,

    Do not blame disco on me!!!

    Back then I was into cryin' and whinin' music.
     
  11. Dain Bramage

    Dain Bramage Member

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    Aha! So you admit to driving a Mustang II while wearing a leisure suit and willfully ignoring the .38 Spl +P travesty!?

    I rest my case.
     
  12. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    DB,

    I admit no such thing!!!

    And there is no photo evidence to prove it!!!

    (actually in 1971 I was leaving my Schwinn stingray in the bushes so that I could stalk the wily grey squirrel with my trusty Benjamin pump)
     
  13. DPris

    DPris Member

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    GF,
    No offense, but this question always causes me to wonder why people ask it.

    How would using a .38 Special load in a revolver designed for hotter .357 Magnum loads not be "safe" in the gun?
    Why do people think it wouldn't be?

    It's always good to ask a question in learning, but that particular question mystifies me.
    Denis
     
  14. aHFo3

    aHFo3 Member

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    Is it safe to break wind while sitting on the toilet?
     
  15. gfanikf

    gfanikf Member

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    Nah, it's okay, I understand. Trust me I love the fact that when I had a stuck primer at 1:30 AM EST I was able to post a message and get help very quickly. I just like the amount of quality information I can get. I also figured it might be a chance to learn about pressure a little more.


    Sweet I'll give that a read! I can use all the help I can get with +P and +P+ (the later I won't even touch).

    Thanks!

    It's not printed on the barrel and more to the point I have a poor understand of pressures and their effects on guns at this stage of the game. I can't even began to convey the issues I had with finally shooting 5.56 out of the Mini-14 GB that I used to have. I had people saying Ruger said it's fine, and others saying I'll blow the gun up...it was confusing. I'm hoping via getting started in reloading I can gain a better knowledge of this.

    Depends if you know the person in the next stall. :D

    The other reason is a person is selling Winchester Ranger T 38 spcl +P HP rounds on a local board and I'd like a box or two.
     
  16. DPris

    DPris Member

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    .38 Special rounds in ANY commercial loading offer markedly lower pressures than any commercial .357 Magnum load I'm aware of.
    Handloading removes most absolutes, but in commercial ammunition .38 Special renders far LESS wear & tear on a good .357 Mag revolver than magnum ammunition does.

    You'll tend to get a ring of carbon inside the chamber walls just at the end of the case with prolongued firing of .38s in a magnum chamber that can eventually accumulate heavy enough to interfere with loading the longer magnum cartridges, but it's not a safety issue & just requires attention to cleaning that carbon out regularly.

    Shooting .38s through a .357 is no more dangerous than shooting .22 Shorts through a .22 Long Rifle revolver. Exactly the same principle- shorter rounds in a chamber designed for a longer round with higher pressures.
    Denis
     
  17. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    I think us Old F**ts, er, mature, er, experienced, er, AARP eligible shooters tend to forget about novices.
     
  18. DPris

    DPris Member

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    Something as basic as .38 Special<.357 Magnum is...so basic it's hard to understand why the question keeps coming up. :)
    Denis
     
  19. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    How bout some numbers

    38 spl +p 18,500 psi

    357 mag 35,000 psi

    End thread




    posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
     
  20. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Actually the .38 Special +P has been brought back to where it originally was set.

    .38 Special = 17,000 PSI
    .38 Special +P = 20,000 PSI
    .357 Magnum = 35,000 PSI

    So, even if you shoot 100 +P's a day every day you will not accelerate wear on your revolver compared to even the lightest .357 Magnum ammo.

    Now we can end the thread... :uhoh: (Mr. Dale made a very good point)
     
  21. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    When was the +p upgraded to 20k?

    Because all the sources I reference still cite 18.5k




    posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
     
  22. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Personally I will never be AARP eligible. I'll die before I ever become that liberal.
     
  23. skt239

    skt239 Member

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    That's funny.
     
  24. Radagast
    • Contributing Member

    Radagast Moderator

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    From Askins on Pistols and revolver, published in the 1980s.

    An interesting development with some dubious implications is the fact that some of the big ammo people aren't loading the .38 as hot right now as they were 10 years ago. Remington had a 158 grain plain lead bullet at 1090 fps and a very decent 425 ft pounds of energy in 1970, today this number only rocks along at 915 fps & produces 295 ft lb of muzzle smash.
    Winchester Western, long time makers of a 150 grain metal piercing load used to soup it up to 1060 fps & 375 ft lb of muzzle gee whiz. Today this old timer has been cut back to 910 fps & 276 of ME. Just what is to gain from the +P gimmickry is any bodies guess.
    These reductions are somewhat offset by Norma-Precision which continues to offer their 110 grain jacketed hollow point at 1542 fps & a resounding 580 ft lb of muzzle swoosh. this is the fastest and hottest .38 ctg on the market today. The company, which has a commendable habit of quoting breech pressures states that their ctg develops 18,400 CUP of pressure. This is quite nominal.
     
  25. skidder

    skidder Member

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    Good question. All my sources say 18.5
     
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