Is 38 Spcl +P safe in a S&W Model 65 357 Magnum?

[Black Knight]

Do you have a 3 or 4 inch model 65? When off duty the gun I carry most is a 3 inch 65 with 125 Gr. SJHP 38 Spec+P. My wife has dificulty with the magnum round so her 2 1/2 inch 66 has the same 38 Spec+P load.

 

[Radagast]

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm lists 17.000 PSI standard, 20,000 +P.
Lever guns.com lists 17.000 & 18,500.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

The European maximum for .38 special is 22,000.
http://kwk.us/pressures.html

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When was the +p upgraded to 20k?

Because all the sources I reference still cite 18.5k

I don't remember where I read it, sorry...

 

[roaddog28]

Pretty sure it is (just more wear and tear), but I wanted to make sure if possible.

Thanks!

I don't think you should believe any of us. Decide for yourself.

38 +P SAAMI max pressure limits 20,000 psi.

357 magnum SAAMI max pressure limits 35,000 psi.

There you go. You make the call.
Howard

 

[jfh]

I lost that link about adjusting the pressure, too--but IIRC, it has occurred because it WAS adjusted after the original 18.5K SAAMI standard came out, and the manufacturers howled--so it was put up to 20K. Essentially, the issue is this:

It was put up to 20K after the current SAAMI standard was published--but, because there has been no new standard published, the old one stands until it is.

Maybe we can find out from the Speer Gold Dot development article on the GDSB HP white paper.

But, in closing, remember that the 38-CIP (European) standard, for all 38 Special Ammo, is the metric equivalent to 21,750 PSI. That was set in 1981, IIRC.

Do you really think reputable mfrs the world around have been making 38 special guns good to only 17,000 for the US and then upping their metallurgy to 21,750 to sell in the European markets?

Jim H.

 

[1911Tuner]

Something as basic as .38 Special<.357 Magnum is...so basic it's hard to understand why the question keeps coming up.
Denis

Mainly because not everybody is well-versed in things of a go-bang nature. I'd rather answer the question 3 times a day than make a beginner hesitant to ask about something that he's just gotten started with. Part of THR's mission statement is to inform and to teach.

 

[jfh]

I will probably try to chase down my documentation on this 38 Special pressure discussion today--but a lot of my links are broken from an incomplete export to Chrome, so we shall see if they can be found.

I also suspect that part of the fog in this topic is the background noise on the Speer #8 / SR4756 loads--but that is too far off topic to hit in this thread, and really shouldn't be pursued.

Anyone else interested in getting the history back up here to current discussion, feel free to google for it. I do recall that ArchangelCD has posted it correctly, but that was some years ago.

Jim H.

 

[Old Fuff]

I'd rather ask and seem silly, than not and seem dead if I'm wrong.

Which is good advise for anyone.

Not to start the argument again over use of .38 Special Plus-P loads in certain .38 revolvers; I will take the opportunity to point out that in older data pressure was expressed in units of CPU or Copper Pressure Units rather the PSI or Pounds per Square Inch.

The two are not the same, and have no relation to each other, yet many seem to think that the numbers are interchangeable. Be sure you know which is which before jumping to any conclusions.

 

[BCRider]

gfanikf, a resource you can study which will ease your fears and which has the same sort of pressure information as the others have given is the Reloading Data Center on the Hodgdon web site. You can look at the max pressure levels that is typically generated for each load and come up with an average max value for regular .38Spl, the +P and+P+ as well as the full out .357Mag loads. You'll quickly see that the +P and +P+ don't come up to anywhere near even the middle of the .357Mag pressure range.

 

[sidheshooter]

(actually in 1971 I was leaving my Schwinn stingray in the bushes so that I could stalk the wily grey squirrel with my trusty Benjamin pump)

Hah! 1977, and Starlings...

But same bike, same strategy, same pump (Beeman silver bear FTW!)

Oh, and I have shot tons of "+P+" in K-frame .38s, back when one of my teachers was a corbon dealer and they did a version of the old "RCMP" (sort of an "FBI" on steroids) load. FWIW.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I will probably try to chase down my documentation on this 38 Special pressure discussion today--but a lot of my links are broken from an incomplete export to Chrome, so we shall see if they can be found.

I also suspect that part of the fog in this topic is the background noise on the Speer #8 / SR4756 loads--but that is too far off topic to hit in this thread, and really shouldn't be pursued.

Anyone else interested in getting the history back up here to current discussion, feel free to google for it. I do recall that ArchangelCD has posted it correctly, but that was some years ago.

Jim H.

Yeah, I lost all my links last year because of a computer crash. I had my pictures and documents backed up but forgot all about my links! :banghead:

 

[Guillermo]

Be sure you know which is which before jumping to any conclusions

absolutely

I had a nice long conversation with S&W on the subject. They said that my (fictitious) 1965 Model 10 could 20,000 PSI. When I pointed out the pressure of +P there was a long silence...then a "yes sir...but we still don't recommend it"

Logic and S&W are strangers.

 

[Guillermo]

same bike, same strategy, same pump

Sadly it is rare to see kids on bikes with pellet guns these days.

Heck, it is rare for kids to ride bikes.


Or be outside.