Is 45acp fading away?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by kimberkid, May 1, 2021 at 11:53 AM.

  1. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    You probably shoot too slow ;)



     
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  2. Nuclear

    Nuclear Member

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    If the 45ACP is fading away, it is due to sheer ignorance. It IS more effective than anything but a 357, according to research done by Greg Ellifritz. It takes almost 3 rounds of 9mm to be as effective as 2 rounds of 45ACP. So you would have to carry 50% more 9mm, and shoot 50% faster. It is so tolerant a round for reloading.

    The 1911 is an old design from 110 years ago, when skilled labor was cheap and machines were expensive. Yet it still works. It is so reliable that during the original US Army trials they gave up after 6000 rounds. I have one that easily bested that. All I did was clean it when it got absolutely filthy, and lube it when looked dry. If I were to redesign it today, there are 4, maybe 5 changes I’d make to make it easier to manufacture and modify, but it would fundamentally be the same.
     
  3. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    I truly doubt that the .45 acp will fade out anytime soon. I think as we step back away from our hobby, and look at guns from a casual perspective-
    "bullets" means 9mm, sure. That's the general viewpoint.

    I still think when you say "pistol", most folks visualize a 1911. And a pretty large percentage would see that pistol, and call it a "45".

    If you make all ammo expensive, and you push to limit the capacity in a magazine, that takes 2 of the 9mm's draws away. It's still a more pleasant shooter in a smaller gun, but for something fullsize, 45 acp is very comfortable.
     
  4. 1goodshot

    1goodshot Member

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    Thats never going to happen.
     
  5. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    Cost of ammo will still likely be relative, no matter what, so if it should continue to go up, 45 will still likely be the most expensive of the major SD type calibers.

    Capacity and caliber are in a way related if they are "mentally" being used as a crutch for a lack of skill on the shooters part. I get the impression that some people seem to think that a bigger caliber or the added rounds will make up for their shortcomings.

    As I said before the same hit, or miss, with a 45 or a 9 will likely bring the same result.

    Capacity is always a plus, for everyone. I don't know of anyone who really thinks less ammo in the gun is a good thing. For whatever reason. I just think if you believe you don't need the capacity because you carry a "bigger and better" caliber, you're only fooling yourself. Capacity more favors reality than caliber. ;)

    I seriously doubt 45 is going away, but I do think people have come to understand that other things work as well and offer more, and like the old .30 caliber guns in the rifle world, its going to end up in the same realm.
     
  6. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    .45 ACP is fading as a duty pistol. But it is no way fading as a production cartridge.
     
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  7. Offhand McFlan

    Offhand McFlan Member

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    45 ACP is only dead so long as there is quality hollow-point 9mm available. Without that stipulation, FMJ 9mm is probably less effective than even good 38sp ammo. Even the "lowly" 9x18 Makarov has a bullet shape which is superior to most 9x19 ammuntion, delivering more damage pound-for--pound. So happens that 9x18 is dimensionally a small copy of 45 ACP, both having the same length-to-width proportion ratio. If 9mm HP was not available, I would probably carry 45ACP FMJ as my primary and 9x18 FMJ or 38sp/357 as a backup, and my 9mm's would be in the safe.

    If the civilized world suddenly took a dump and you couldnt get hi-tech proprietary parts for your car any more, what would you want? A fuel injected car or one with a carburetor that you could rebuild yourself in a machine shop? I'd want the one that doesnt depend on micro technology, electronics and mass production to simply work well.

    Suffice to say then, that as long as good hollow point 9mm is available, 45 ACP will not be dead so much as sleeping. The real problem is, with fewer people buying it the industry wont be creating such a surplus so the question is more about availability and price than practicality. A round that doesnt depend so much on micro-engineering to work well, and does just fine in its simplest form seems pretty practical to me...

    ...and far from dead.
     
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  8. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Well said. I know I decided to save a few hundred flat point 185 grain .45s in my loading piles as "just in case" I can't find any more hollowpoints. Loaded up to around 1100 FPS they'd do just fine.

    I also have a bag of 250 RMR "multi purpose" JHP projectiles saved for the same reasons, just to have a fall back to my fall back JHPs fallback :)
     
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  9. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    I don't think that's really the case. A lot of people over the past century or so have died from being shot by 9mm ball out of all sorts of guns. With any of them, you need to hit what needs hit to have them work.

    I really think all these types of discussions are more apples to oranges and its not comparing round vs round, its comparing skill vs marketing, war stories, ego, insecurity, nostalgia, etc.

    I shoot a lot of both 45acp and 9mm fmj each year in practice. And 9mm at around a 10:1 ratio to the 45's. Id have no problems using my fmj reloads, of either, if they were all I had, as I know they are plenty hot enough and I know they shoot well, and I shoot in practice as close as I can as I would in any kind of live fire.
     
  10. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I agree, but every time I see a shooting like the Jacob Blake or Laquan McDonald shootings, where multiple shots are required to get the individual to stop (with the accompanying "why did he have to shoot him XX times?" all over the media), I wonder if there will ever be a move back to a heavier round.


    Edit to add: Then I suppose the comments will be, "they used a powerful round that even the military doesn't use any more."
     
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  11. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I presume you probably know how to do it, but I suspect there are a lot of folks that don't know how to re-lube without field stripping. For those folks, here is Dave Anderson at about the 2:05 mark

     
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  12. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    I've been a big 45 acp fan for years, but I've also started to to lean towards 9mm for many items. I used to shoot some competition games with a 45 acp 1911 in the production division. I've since moved to a 9mm 1911 using 147gr rounds as it gives me faster follow up shots. I've also swapped out my carry gun from a Kimber Ultra Carry II in 45 acp to a Sig 365 in 9mm. Just easier to conceal and carry.

    Overall I still love shooting 45 acp, but I definitely seeing it slowly losing ground to 9mm in several categories. Though I don't see it going away all together anytime soon.
     
  13. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    This question has been coming up every few years since 1873.
     
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  14. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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    I've seen shootings where the suspect was pumped full of .45 ACP and what ended it was a CNS hit.
     
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  15. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    Thanks for making my point. :)
     
  16. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

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    I need a Glock 21SF ... just came to my mind

    Someone send me one
     
  17. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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  18. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    Not quite GeoDudeFlorida. A question about the .45 Colt "fading into obscurity" may have "been coming up every few years since 1873," but the .45ACP hasn't been around that long. The .45ACP wasn't even invented until early in the 20th century.;)
     
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  19. Miami_JBT

    Miami_JBT Member

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  20. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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  21. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Agreed. I kind of meant the big, fat, slow, heavy bullet versus the small, pointy, fast, light bullet. And the resulting co-argument about the big, heavy weapon that doesn't hide well versus the small, light weapon in a more nearly concealable size. If we're honest, that debate - big, heavy, hard-hitting weapon versus small, light, easily-carried weapon - probably started shortly after Cain killed Abel. We humans have a tendency to want to argue that what's best for us must be best for everyone else, too. Why else would we choose the things we choose if they weren't practically perfect in every way? :)
     
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  22. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I will sell a number of my 1911s, including one double stack, before I sell my Glock 21.
     
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  23. ev780

    ev780 Member

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    {rubs crystal ball}

    Within the next couple years some dusted out whackadoo will walk right through some cops 9mm mag dump and the pundits will declare that the puny 9 must be replaced with something with a 4 in it and we will start this s**t all over again.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021 at 5:50 PM
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  24. BillWM

    BillWM Member

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    The 45 caliber bullet has been around for a long time. Martini Henry uses a 45 dia bullet weighing about 500 grains. Used to stop fanatical tribesman,
    When your enemy is juiced up on some root they smoked they will not stop due to pain and injury, these large bullets tore off limbs.
    The 45 ACP known as a manstopper, the size of the bullet is more likely to open an artery, you bleed to death. Smaller faster bullets can zip through but leave smaller holes and the enemy is less likely to bleed out as quickly. People can keep coming at you until the body shuts down due to lack of oxygen to the brain. In the past opponents were found both dead in a fight for their lives, though the enemy was mortally wounded he could still deliver deadly blows. Today we have criminals hopped up on cocaine and don't feel bullets unless one hits the spine, head or heart. Unlikely to get fantastic aim in a gun fight these guys can keep going but the one thing that slows and stops them is loss of blood. I believe the 45 will be with us for a long time.
     
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  25. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I understand why this thread has turned into another caliber war. To each their own. I prefer to carry the largest caliber I can carry in a concealable weapon that I can shoot proficiently. Currently that's .45 ACP. Just like I regularly assess my method of carry and the weapon I carry, I'm mindful of my ability to utilize what I choose to carry. If a caliber switch is necessitated down the road, I will make that change.
     
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