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Is a Browning HiPower Worth $300 More Than a CZ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Tecolote, Aug 5, 2012.

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  1. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    You talking about the BDM? I've got one, and it's a good shooter, and the skinniest double-stack I've ever seen. It was and is extremely reliable, and had a pretty good trigger (as DA/SA's go) OOTB. But the controls are definitely a little strange.... the safety is also the decocker and the slide release. It's frame-mounted, but "safe" is down (backwards from a BHP or CZ), so you can't ride the safety. The tang/abbreviated beavertail is quite low, so you can't get as high a grip on it as is now popular with pistols. I got used to the controls, but it doesn't fit my grip very well anymore; otherwise, it would still be my primary HD pistol.

    And it didn't have a truly DAO mode. It has a switch you can turn to put it into "revolver" mode. If you put it in that mode, the hammer de-cocks/follows after every shot, but you can still cock the hammer with your thumb. I think they hoped that would win the favor of law enforcement agencies transitioning from revolvers, but the all-metal contruction and the complex trigger control unit probably kept them from competing price-wise with the Glocks that were suddenly flooding the market. Browning dropped production several years ago. I think they could bring back the external form and have a very viable CCW-market piece, given that it holds 15 rounds and is very, very skinny.
     
  2. dcarch

    dcarch Member

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    To the OP: that's a negative. Especially with the 75 SA variant.
     
  3. jungle

    jungle Member

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    I think the best plan is to buy whatever floats your boat, blows your skirt up or turns your crank.

    Neither the CZ nor the BHP sell in large numbers today, the world has moved on.
     
  4. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    tell us more about your CZ Miles...

    was that a stock buy or did you have it customized?
     
  5. BigG

    BigG Member

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    When you say Browning HP you have to recall that there are lots of guns that people call BHP. I would only say a commercial Belgian Browning High Power would be worth the mega bucks. CZ guns are well made but they are a little clunky to my tastes. I like the Bren Ten version just as a curiosity.
     
  6. Wags

    Wags Member

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    If I had $1000 in cash, and the CZ 75 was $599, or the Browning Hi-power (MKIII) was $899, I'd pull the trigger for the SA Browning Hi-Power hands down. $300 is a mood point for what I want or need. Both are excellent and proven pistol's. But you can't take anything away from the Browning Hi-Power other than it's single action vs double action. And I respect Belgian quality over Czech any day of the week. Sorry CZ fans.
     
  7. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    ^^^THIS^^^
     
  8. MrDig

    MrDig Member

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    Ditto,
     
  9. dcarch

    dcarch Member

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    Sorry, but as a broke college student, I would have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. :D
     
  10. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Valid point, but making that statement is the equivalent of claiming that a ROLEX is better than a TIMEX, when the Timex keeps time as well or better than the Rolex, and does it for a fraction of the cost.

    The Timex, however, has no snob appeal. Neither does the CZ. The CZ's DA trigger pull IS too long for some folks, so the first shot, if firing from DA mode, can be problematic. The BHP SA (cocked and locked) mode is a problem for some folks, too.

    If what someone values, in the case of the BHP (or FN HP), is extra time spent in manufacturing, and it's worth the extra cost to him or er, then it's his or her money to spend. But, being willing to spend that extra money doesn't make the item purchased "better"; it does make it more "valued" by the buyer. Nothing wrong with that.

    I have a T-series BHP and a well-tuned CZ-85 Combat, and really like them both. Both have been tweaked by a good gunsmith, but neither needed much tweaking. In the final analysis, however, I prefer a highly-gunsmithed AT-84s (a CZ clone from Switzerland) more than either the CZ or the BHP. It's smoother, more accurate, with an exquisite trigger in either DA or SA mode. Any of my shooting buddies who who have shot all three like the AT-84s better, too. Of the three, if I were under financial duress, the AT-84s would be the last to go.

    All this discussion proves is that the old cliche is true: "there's no accounting for taste."


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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  11. jeff-10

    jeff-10 Member

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    I have owned 3 pistols which were lemons in my life. A older 9mm CZ-75B, a brand new 9mm CZ-75 Compact and a 40 S&W Browning Hi-Power. So yes I regret the purchase of both of those CZs. For the record I do own 1 CZ-75B that is 100% reliable. I keep going back to the because they fit my hand perfectly.
     
  12. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    One other point is that I feel the CZ75 is inherently stronger, and will handle longer use with +p and +P+ loadings, something the Hi Power design, by other expert opinions, does not.
     
  13. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    I paid $425 for a stainless 75B in all but unfired condition. I shoot it as well as any other pistol I have shot. Functionally, there is nothing the Hi-Power would do better. The Hi-Power certainly has a better name but neither are going to be pistols that will let you retire early from an investment point of view. I would personally pick the one that is most enjoyable for me and buy it. Neither should lose you much, if any money if you take care of them and decide to sell them. With that being the case, I don't see how picking the one you like most is a bad route to go.

    I personally like the CZ and it's price point. I'm a casual shooter. I don't compete, I don't abuse firearms. I just like to shoot for fun. While I have the ability to pay for either I can't justify the Hi-Power over the CZ as I personally won't enjoy either more than the other when it's all said and done.
     
  14. Fastcast

    Fastcast Member

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    and that right there is the beauty of the CZ manual safety...carry it however you like, DA or SA/C&L.

    The HP, has more history, nostalgia and a better finish but the CZ is no slouch and is more versatile, aesthetically has better lines and the famous Jeff Cooper's approval. It just doesn't have the long history of the HP.

    Is the HP "worth" $300 more?....Sure depending on what you value....For me, no because the 1911 is the history, nostalgia, John Browning pistol that those things matter to me, not the HP. Only the purchaser can determine what something is worth and there's people all over the world that have more money than brains! :cool:
     
  15. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    That's a ridiculous statement. In what way is the CZ 75, as specific product or as a platform, third tier?

    They're name brand and perform like it.

    The High Power may have seen seventy five years of use, which says a lot about how well designed and conceived the pistol was, given the longevity of it's classmates (ten to twenty, then almost universally relegated to curio status for all practical purposes), but don't get it twisted, it's a good design and a good pistol that was created at a time when very few contemporary pistols had the qualities that make a service pistol successful in the long term.

    These days basically any manufacturer has the benefit of twelve decades of user experience and manufacturing/maintenance experience to draw upon, even if it's a new company producing their first product. We know what makes a sidearm desirable these days, we've got a good handle on how to make weapons that aren't prohibitively expensive to build, that deliver acceptable or better accuracy, and that with rare exceptions will run basically any properly manufactured ammunition without headache.

    In 1935 it wasn't such an easy task, we didn't have the same handle on manufacturing, most companies making autos were either doing the direct-blowback thing with .25,.32, and .380 ACP-type cartridges, or would often build some oddish guns to try to take advantage of higher-powered cartridges. They didn't always work out. The High Power didn't really have much in the way of successful long term competition, which is why it stuck around.

    These days guns of equal or better practical value can be made for less money. That's all there is to it.
     
  16. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    I've had at least four high-gloss blue CZs, (including two CZ-85 Combats) over the years. Beautiful, deep blue, sort of like the old S&W Blue. There has never been as much demand for that finish, it appears. I prefer the satin nickel finish, myself.
     
  17. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    My guess is those that have a hard time reaching the trigger of the CZ in double action mode, also have a hard time reaching the thumb safety as well for single action "cocked & locked" carry. I know that is my case. I can easily reach the Hi-Power's trigger and thumb safety, while I need to rotate the CZ75 one way to reach the CZ's DA trigger, and rotate the pistol the other way to reach the thumb safety.

    Parts and construction wise, the Hi-Power is probably not worth $300 more than a CZ75B, but if the pistol works better for you, or you just like it better, than it is worth $300 more. They are very different pistols. It's not like you are comparing a CZ with a Tanfoglio Witness. Is a Sig worth $300 more than a Glock? They're all good, some work better for some people. Buy what you like.
     
  18. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    This was very early CZ75 manufacture. Like Walt stated above, nothing lacking on the fit, finish, and bluing capabilites of CZ back then. They could do it now, but they might have to charge AS MUCH AS A BROWNING! :neener: [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  19. RoboDuck

    RoboDuck Member

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    Brownings will always be worth more.
     
  20. jp3

    jp3 Member

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    I don't get the high-power hoopla. They're okay, but I still think JBs best effort was the 1911.
     
  21. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Probably true. The safety isn't the DA/SA models strong point. On the SA models, the safety lever is much larger and easier to use.

    What I didn't mention earlier, and should have, is that starting from the half-cock notch (on guns with the Firing Pin Block) is absolutely safe, and noticeably shortens the trigger pull. There is also an after-market trigger (from Smecky, at Cajun Gun Works) that helps shorten the pull, too.

    The decocker models start from (and decocks to) the half-cock position, and those models have only ONE hammer hook, not two (as in the safety-equipped models).

    CZs in their original configuration don't work for folks with small hands or short fingers or thumbs. Certain other guns present similar (or different, but equally challenging) issues. If a certain gun doesn't work for you, you find one that does -- you don't rant because you are "manually" or otherwise challenged by the gun's design. <grin> In situations like that, it's a bad fit, not a bad person or a bad gun...

    My Glock 35, for example, is about the only DA/SA gun that has a slide release that I can work with my strong hand without changing my grip. When I was shooting IDPA regularly, I generally shot my Glock 34 (now gone) a bit better than other guns, even though I preferred other guns when just shooting for giggles at the range.

    For home defense, when I'm nervous and dealing with a real-world "bump in the night", I prefer a gun with a safety, so my much revered Glocks aren't in the bed side safe. (That's just MY weaknesses and concerns, and no slam of the guns -- as I really like Glocks, too. Just picked up a Glock 38, recently, and it's great.)


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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  22. amd6547

    amd6547 Member

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    I have owned a CZ75, and I have owned Browning HiPowers. The CZ never felt as good in my hand as the Browning. In fact, the Browning feels like an extension of my arm. It is smaller and lighter. It CCW's very easily.
     
  23. Fastcast

    Fastcast Member

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    How I wish CZ still offered those gloss blue 75s!
     
  24. westtx28

    westtx28 Member

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    Take the $300 and put it toward a Kadet Kit for the CZ. Then you'll have a 9mm of fantastic quality and one of the best large framed .22LR money can buy. CZ did their Kadet kit right. I have a Ciener kit for my BHP that never seed the light of day because the Kadet is so good.
     
  25. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Member

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    CZ 75s are available in single action only as well as SA/DA, if anyone doesn't like the DA trigger. I also have a 97B, SA/DA. the trigger is just fine.
     
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