Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by iyn, Nov 20, 2010.
I keep my weapon chambered. I can pick it up and shoot with either just as easily as a revolver.
I just picked it up weak hand and racked the slide, I'd estimate it took less than a second (it was sitting next to me as I was reading your post). It would take me longer to load a revolver weak hand.
If we live in some world where the revolver can be loaded but a semi cannot I guess I must admit that I am going to be about .6 seconds slower with the semi.
I didn't know having basic proficiency with a handgun was ninja.
Humor me, what is the extent of your training in defensive/combat use of a handgun?
a 357 revolver, a 12 gauge pump and an AR15.
If I hear something that might be nothing I carry the 357.
The shotgun is for if I KNOW someone is in the house.
The AR is for if the car alarm goes off or something is amiss outside
Prepare for a Judge spin off flame fest and a locked thread.
Why would you want ammo that is putting projectiles off target in such a short distance. I have a lot of open spaces in my home more than 15'. I also have other people in my home and if one of those projectiles that is patterning at 20" misses it is a liability.
That video seems to demonstrate one more reason not to use a judge for HD.
That video shows huge patterns for 7 ft and unacceptable at 15'.
I'd prefer to have much better control of where my rounds are going in an occupied dwelling than a gun throwing a 20" doughnut patterns offers. Of course there is the matter of terminal ballistics as well. I'll stop there however, since the OP didn't ask about a judge and probably doesn't want he thread to spin off into the same trite debate that always turns into.
You are missing my point. It is nominally slower to do any of those things one handed than with two. I can TRB an auto in less than a second. I just tried it, to re-verify.
If something goes wrong and 5-6 rounds don't cut it you are going to find a revolver much more difficult to reload one handed or even with two than the fraction of a second it takes to TRB a semi with one hand. BTW I think running dry is probably more likely than a stoppage in my gun, apart from stoppages purposely created to drill immediate action drills, it has had one in I don't even know how many thousands of rounds. I failed to seat the mag. TRB and I was rolling again in less than a second.
*ETA: On the above point I believe it was Clint smith that said he sees stoppages for the following reasons in order of frequency
1. Running out of ammo
2. Bad magazines
3&4 [I cannot remember which was which] Bad ammo; user error
5. Problems with the gun
Mr. Smith gets to see a lot more guns run than I do or ever will. It lends support to the idea that going dry in a low capacity weapon is something to be thinking about as well as, if not more than, a malfunction.
I get the sense you are unfamilar with one handed imediate action drills. Why don't you tell me how you are going to clear a malfunction one handed with a semi, lest say a stove pipe. Why is that so difficult to do one handed? You seem to imply that two handed it wouldn't be to slow but one handed it would be. How much longer doing see it taking?
I don't take issue with anyone using a revolver over a semi. That personally isn't where the calculations of the pros and cons of each + my preferences lands me but I have no issue with the idea someone else might come out a different way. I do take issue with the suggestion that having to clear a malf is some insurmountable hurdle. Anyone who has taken even the most basic defensive handgun course can do it.
lpl (Let's please hold down the testosterone excretion here as much as possible...)
When people get upset, lob insults and disengage when one inquires into the basis of their opinions and assertions I think that speaks volumes about said opinions and assertions.
Bet she would use a similar analogy
I pray that we will all be very well prepared but will never have to resort to these methods. Better to be prepared than caught sleeping though.
Oh there's no doubt, you Just can't argue with a sick mind.
To the OP, it sounds like you've got a handle on it. Don't over think it, you'll be fine with what ever works best for you personally.
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"...whatever you you have is in reliable working condition and that you're proficient with it..." Exactly.
"...exactly how effective are you going to be?..." You won't be 'effective' with anything if you're hurt.
Shotguns in the safe. It would have to be a much less perfect world near me to unlimber the long guns, but that's what the safe is for; it could certainly be done fairly quickly.
IMO, for HD, most generally, unless somebody with a strong preference trains hard to compensate for a longer weapon's drawbacks, a pistol in a caliber most comfortable to the home defender is the best option.
Since this occasion of home invasion is not a commonly repeated event, the dangers of wall or structural penetration, while possible, are almost statistically moot. This is usually a fairly rare event, I'd be more concerned with not running over a neighbor with my car while I'm driving in the neighborhood, which I do every day.
Granted, I'm just looking at paper, but after watching a pump shotgun do about as much damage with 2 shells as I can do with my .40 with a full 16 round magazine, I'm inclined to say I'd prefer the shotgun. But if all I had was my .40, firing as fast as I can I can get 90% of my shots COM at 20 feet. It may not win me a trophy, but I'm sure that at any distance in my house, I'd be able to hit the person I'm aiming at.
Of course, you should use what you have, and a handgun is better than nothing, but understand, handguns aren't 'enough' for anything. Handguns are a compromise for portability. I keep a handgun to fill the gap between me and my long gun. If I am in my house, there is no gap. I have come to believe that the power advantages of a long gun far outweigh the handling disadvantages. There is much to learn about how to handle them properly.
You have stated that you have a condition that makes it a strain for you to seriously train with a long gun. This may well be, and I would rather see you train with something you will enjoy and shoot often than not train because it causes you pain. Like others have said, overpenetration is not a primary concern in choosing a home defense arm. All rounds will overpenetrate to some extent, and you won't always hit your target. Planning your strategy and laying out your house to minimize the likelihood of innocents being in the likely lanes of fire is the most effective way to minimize the risk. And honestly, when I was in an apartment, I made it a priority to get into a brick house, even when I wasn't in a position to buy it, because I could not narrow down any specific way to minimize the risk to neighbors, I just couldn't know enough about their homes to plan around them.
But at night, my 1911 is locked up, my primary is a Remington 870, my backup (and my wife's primary) is an M-1 carbine. There are long-gun solutions that you might look at, given the chance. The reason the military uses ARs is that just about anyone can learn to operate one comfortably.
Hard to argue with that. Then again, we're talking HD here, right? So a lot of this is going to concern the nature of the threat itself. As a home defender, what are you likely to be dealing with?
Based on my reading of the literature - and I've got America's First Freedom right here and in a few minutes will be reading this month's Armed Citizen column - it seems like 99 percent of all home invasions are burglars, punks, teenagers, drunks, and psychos.
The dedicated team of suicidal ninjas who keep coming and won't stop until you're dead are a very remote threat. It does happen, but usually a single shot of any kind signals to the invader that armed resistance is on the menu, and usually the intruder seeks immediate exit. In nearly all reports, 1 or 2 shots resolves the situation.
So a loaded .357 is generally a pretty good defense and reloading is not a likely scenario, regardless. Personally, to check out a bump in the night, I'm grabbing a revolver. To check out loud voices and sounds of trouble, I'm going for the Mossberg. For CCW, I like a semi-auto.
hint, they are not trying to scare anybody away with the "ka-chunk", they are just getting ready to shoot somebody
most "somebodies" are prone to guess what the next sound is going to be, and the smarter ones are oft inclined to go away... the dumber ones get to hear the next sound
if you are lucky,you will get a smart one
if not so lucky, and kill a dumb one trying to steal your TV set, you righteously win the "spend lots of time and money on lawyers" prize
I prefer a 357 mag revolver myself
makes only one kind of (unmistakable) sound
but I am not going to kill somebody over a TV set.. if so dumb as to bring the fight to me, call the lawyer after
Separate names with a comma.