Is a Primer a Primer a Primer?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by fmnnc, Nov 26, 2007.

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  1. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Very interesting. Has anyone done a similar test on pistol primers? I may have to switch to Remingtons in my carry loads, since then I'd have absolutely no worries about ignition!
     
  2. EShell

    EShell Member

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    Slamfire . . .
    LOL, that IS tough to explain - I'm using MilSurp 4895 myself, and didn't have any better results with commercial.

    I'm loading FGMM brass ('cuz I have a gazillion) and Lapua 155 Scenars. I shoot a lot of long range, and one of the tactical matches I shoot requires a .308, of all things. FGMM 168s don't reliably stay stable to ranges beyond 800-900 or so in my 20" LTR, and FGMM 175s drop ferociously (43 MOA to get on at 1k from a 100 yard zero) and drift is almost as bad. The Scenars have the same BC as the 175 SMK, but can typically be driven 200 fps faster, making them THE bullet to use in Ol' Stubby, IF I can get them to shoot. I ran into light pressure indications at 42.0, some 3-4 grains below book max, and am holding at 41.5. Did some research and found the #34 to be equivalent to CCI#250s.

    FWIW, I just found out that my lot of MilSurp 4895 is terribly temperature sensitive with my combo and I will have to abandon it for my match ammo anyway. Loads worked up during moderate weather (60-70oF) used about 4 more MOA to be zeroed at 1k or so when used at 30oF. Putting some of the ammo in my pocket as an experiment gave me *FEET* of vertical at extended ranges compared the ammo carried awhile in the rifle. :eek:

    I used to use the old WLRs myself, and still have a few hundred *old* ones around. I haven't have any problem with my new ones (brass-plated cups), and use them in my daughter's .243, my .260 and 6.5-284 match rifles. Using match-prepped Lapua, Rem & Norma brass, respectively, I typically get light ejector marks (M700s), then hard extraction before seeing a lot of primer flow.

    Guess these are excellent examples as to why it is always prudent to work up to max using your own components, rather than taking someone else's data, no matter how trustworthy or reliable the source.
     
  3. rbernie
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    rbernie Contributing Member

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    Small Rifle 
    
           Cup Thickness Diameter Height 
    CCI 400 .	.020"	.1753"	.109" 
    CCI 450 .	.025"	.1750" 	.113" 
    CCI BR4 	.025" 	.1755" 	.109" 
    Federal 200 	.019" 	.1757" 	.111" 
    Federal 205M  	.0225" 	.1744"	.1075" 
    Remington 6 ½	.020" 	.1753" 	.109" 
    Remington 7 1/2 .025" 	.1752"	.110" 
    Winchester SR	.021"	.1750" 	.109" 
    
    Large Rifle 
           Cup Thickness Diameter Height 
    CCI 200 	.027" 	.2112"	.118" 
    CCI 250 	.027"	.2113"	.118" 
    Federal 210 	.027" 	.2120" 	.117" 
    Remington 9 1/2	.027" 	.2100" 	.119" 
    Winchester LR 	.027" 	.2114" 	.121" 
    
    Brand/type	      Power Average Range    Std. Dev
    1 Fed Match GM215M	6.12    5.23-6.8   .351
    2 Federal 215 LRM       5.69    5.2-6.5   .4437
    3 CCI 250 LRM            5.66   4.5-7.4   .4832
    4 Winchester WLRM      	 5.45   5.1-6.0   .2046
    5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM    5.09   3.5-6.75   .6641
    6 Winchester WLR         4.8    4.1-6.0   .4300
    7 Remington 9 1/2 LR     4.75   3.7-6.25   .5679
    8 Fed Match GM210M       4.64   4.0-5.6   .3296
    9 Federal 210 LR         4.62   3.7-5.5   .3997
    10 CCI BR2               4.37   4.0-5.0    .2460
    11 CCI 200 LR            4.28    3.8-4.8   .3218
    12 KVB 7 LR Russian      4.27    3.8-4.8   .2213
    13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old)  4.16   3.8-4.8   .3427
    14 Rem LP                 4.47   3.2-5.6   .5171
    15 KVB 45 LP Russian      3.89   3.3-4.2   .2232
    16 CCI 300 LP 	         3.18    2.7-3.5   .2406
    17 Federal 150 LP        3.11    2.6-3.5   .2090
    18 Fed Match GM150M  	 3.05    2.6-3.7   .2299
    
     
  4. FLORIDA KEVIN

    FLORIDA KEVIN Member

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    I wonder if it would be of any value to get some of those rubber x-ring bullets that fire using just a primer for power .load several cases with different primers like , small rifle ,small pistol. magnum and non magnum and fire them through a chronograph to determine the relative power of each type ? I would try it but i dont have a chronograph !
     
  5. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    rbernie: Very interesting chart. Assuming that this chart was conducted on the new "brass" Winchester primers, the large rifle cup thickness is the same for them as for all.

    Which means that if the new Winchester is more sensitive and more prone to piercing than CCI, then Winchester took the workhardening out of their cup, or maybe that nickel coating makes a difference.

    And Remington 9 1/2 primers are the strongest of the standard primers and CCI are amoung the weakest. I would not have thought that.
     
  6. rbernie
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    rbernie Contributing Member

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    I should qualify - this is not my data, but a compilation of what I've found on the web.
     
  7. scout26

    scout26 Member

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    Just in case someone comes across this thread and is considering shotshell reloading.....

    Shotshell primers are VERY different and cannot be wantonly interchanged. You must follow the published recipe and use the primer call for.

    Now back to the Rifle and Pistol primer discussion.
     
  8. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

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    Slamfire1

    Forget about what brand of primer you are using. Slamfire1 in post 17 cover'd it well. Headspace ? Firing pin protrusion ? I agree. No firing pin bounces off a primer. The fact that some primers may be hotter or more touchy is not the issue. The fact is your gun is not working right. Atleast not all the time.
     
  9. rg1

    rg1 Member

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