Is Dateline's "To Catch a Predator" anti gun?

[hamourkiller]

The only thing better than a caught child molester is a DEAD child molester! I am glad the one in Dallas is dead! We dont need such scum in Texas.

 

[Deanimator]

Well, you could argue that they use entrapment, which is a tactic many disagree with.

"Entrapment" is getting somebody to do something which they had no previous inclination to do. These guys are in those chat rooms SPECIFICALLY to commit statutory rape. Some of them have prior convictions for molestation and statutory rape. They KNOW what they're doing is wrong, and they've got no right to be surprised when it comes back to bite them.

 

[jaholder1971]

Would you rather they catch them after they've molested a child?

Respectfully, that's the way our system of justice is supposedto work. Catch and punish after a crime was committed, not entrap people into thought crimes.

 

[jaholder1971]

So how this works is online adult geeks are pretending to be underage deliberately soliciting dirty old adult men. The online version of the Little Schoolgirl/Cheerleader role playing kink.

So I'm trying to figure out how this is a sex crime unless a real underaged person is involved?

 

[highorder]

the same way you can be prosecuted for armed robbery by holding up a store with a stick in your pocket...

IIRC, the intent of soliciting (what they think is ) a minor is a crime.

 

[Wes Janson]

It's also worth pointing out that the definition of "child" is vague, varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and is treated by the media to emotionally weight statements. From a historical perspective, the concept of 18 and older as being the definition of an adult is a new and unusual concept. I know I'm wasting my time by pointing this out, but consider how Brady/VPC/Handgun Control/etc like to harp on the number of teenage gangsta "children" who are killed by guns each year. Nevermind if it's a 17-y/o shot in self defense while committing armed robbery. "Think of the children!" should automatically trigger everybody's BS-o-meter, period.

My primary concern is that law enforcement and entertainment should NOT be allowed to merge together. It's one thing to educate the public about the realities of crime and policework, it's another thing entirely to make it into entertainment programming.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

Quote:
Would you rather they catch them after they've molested a child?

Respectfully, that's the way our system of justice is supposedto work. Catch and punish after a crime was committed, not entrap people into thought crimes.

Respectfully, you are wrong. That is why we have "Attempt" to commit a crime. That's why these men are being charged with "Attempting to solicit sex with a minor", and NOT "Sex with a minor".

Example: A man is hiring a hitman to murder his wife.

They do not wait for the hitman to kill the wife, and then charge them.

They arrest them immediately and charge them with "Attempted murder".


Obviously, if we had to let everyone commit crimes before we arrested them, there would be many more victims. And it is the police's job to "Protect and Serve". Protect = Protect the public from dangers, before they happen if possible.

 

[alsaqr]

"Respectfully, you are wrong. That is why we have "Attempt" to commit a crime. That's why these men are being charged with "Attempting to solicit sex with a minor", and NOT "Sex with a minor"."

There is an explosion of child molestation in the US. We need dozens more sting operations like the one run by Date Line. Something is drastically wrong with a man who lurks on a teen site trying to solicit sex with folks he knows to be children.

Not too long ago one of these stings was run by Date Line in little Walters, OK: It was a little different than some. The person who went online was a cop. Think the decoy also also a cop. They caught a bunch of perverts including a registered sex offender and a preacher. The online decoy was corresponding with as many as 51 guys.

"It's just shocking,” said John Sheppard, Walters city manager. "No one ever imagined this thing would get this big. One day they had 18 men lined up. They caught 11. I mean these guys were practically bumping into each other at the door.


"And they are coming loaded with sexual toys and alcohol and drugs. They look like they're going to a bear hunt.”

"Carter first got the idea to set up a sting for sexual predators a year and a half ago when he attended a conference on exploited and missing children.

"All those kids who are missing and have just vanished,” Carter said, shaking his head. "And where did a lot of those cases start? On the computer. That really touched me. Parents need to know who their kids are chatting with online.”

Eventually, Carter arranged two days of free training in November from the organizers of Perverted-Justice.com. "I'm really proud of our entire police department,” Sheppard said. "A lot of them have volunteered their own time, away from their families, to catch these predators. Robbie Carter — the chief's wife and one of our reserve officers — has been invaluable."

 

[inherentical]

There is an explosion of child molestation in the US. We need dozens more sting operations like the one run by Date Line.

I'd prefer a reward system based on tips resulting in a conviction. Dateline doesn't even make very good TV, and I doubt anyone has been convicted of a precrime in these cases.

 

[jagter82]

The police is under no legal obligation to protect anyone.

If you put the media and police together you are asking for trouble. Police like to show off and as to the aggressiveness they have no right to do that, the badge does not empower them to be aggressive but it is a norm nowadays.

As to a media interview that should not happen when the perp walks in the house he should find the police waiting for him and not a reporter.

 

[Kman]

"new and unusual concept!?!?!" IT'S THE LAW! and as far as the merger of T.V. and law enforcement, show me a downside to consider? I see a huge plus by having the video to witness at our leisure.
Entrapment of a non-pedophile is impossible. A school bus full of naked children will not lure a non-pedophile into a sexual encounter. Only a sick and disturbed SOB would show effort to seek a sexual encounter with a child, and these sick SOB's are doing just that by going to predetermined locations!! this shows intent!!!
What is so disturbing is our lack of action as a society!! these sickos need to be thinned from the herd, off the streets period. :banghead:

 

[elderboy02]

I saw the one where he said "he had a legally registered firearm in the trunk of his car". Who cares? It is Legal. Lock him up for the importuning. That show is all about building up drama.

 

[alsaqr]

"Dateline doesn't even make very good TV, and I doubt anyone has been convicted of a precrime in these cases"

Tell that to this pervert.

http://www.kansaspublicradio.org/newsstory.php?itemID=5540

"KS Man Caught in OK Sex Sting Date: December 28, 2007
A federal judge has sentenced a Kansas man to more than 11 years in prison for trying to arrange a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl in Oklahoma. Forty-three-year-old Lawrence Paul Mai (MY) pleaded guilty in Oklahoma City to travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct, which is a felony. Mai remains on home confinement in Salina. Mai and more than a dozen other men were caught in a sex sting by police in Walters, Oklahoma. Authorities said each of them traveled to the town to have sex with a person they thought was an underage girl they met on the Internet. The girl was an undercover officer. Mai admitted he made a "bad decision" and in court Thursday begged the judge for a sentence short enough to allow him to continue counseling. But the judge the seriousness of the crime warranted serious punishment."

Tell that to the pervert preacher:

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/local/local_story_298005636.html

"OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A former Tahlequah minister caught up in a computer sex sting is being sentenced to 15 months in federal prison for sending a picture of his genitals to a person he thought was a 13-year-old girl.

Forty-six-year-old Charles Barry Shaffer was arrested in February when he went to Walters to have sex with the girl"

 

[JLelli]

I don't know if To Catch a Predator itself is anti-gun, but there is no question in my mind that Dateline as a whole is.

 

[Hoplophile]

Knowing Perverted Justice more intimately than your average user, I can say that they're utter lowlifes. They ruin people's lives, regardless of the facts. They're a loosely-defined mob with no regard for the JUSTICE and all the concern for the PERVERSION. It really is "Perverted Justice".

They're not helping cops, they're not helping kids, they're not doing anything but entertaining Americans who know nothing about stings, cops, pedophiles, or the Internet.

I personally see this show as an attack on the Internet, and by extension, an attack upon free speech.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

Knowing Perverted Justice more intimately than your average user, I can say that they're utter lowlifes. They ruin people's lives, regardless of the facts. They're a loosely-defined mob with no regard for the JUSTICE and all the concern for the PERVERSION. It really is "Perverted Justice".

They're not helping cops, they're not helping kids, they're not doing anything but entertaining Americans who know nothing about stings, cops, pedophiles, or the Internet.

I personally see this show as an attack on the Internet, and by extension, an attack upon free speech.

Knowing Perverted Justice more intimately than your average user

You seem really angry and say you know them better then your average user, were you on the show?

They ruin people's lives

People ruin their OWN lives. Similar to saying, the show Cops is ruining DUI drivers lives when they get caught. The Cops Show and the Police did not ruin the guy's life. He did it himself.

they're not doing anything but entertaining Americans

Perverted Justice has been around since 2002, long before the show "To Catch a Predator" came on. So, to say they were made to entertain the public is blatantly false.

 

[divemedic]

As the Father of a girl who I caught having sex with a much older man, I would like to weigh in here. My daughter was 15, and the man was 25.

- My daughter knew right from wrong. She chose to do what she did. I certainly never told her that it was OK to do what she did. Not a parenting issue, she knew better, but made her choices. You teach your children the correct path, but as individuals, they make their own choices.

- As the adult, the older person is legally supposed to know better, and is the one who is supposed to be held responsible, and rightly so.

- If the situation is reversed, and an older attractive woman has sex with a young teen boy, many see this as a lesser crime, or not a crime at all.

- The group "Perverted Justice" is a bunch of a-holes. They harass people for alleged crimes with no chance for a fair trial or even a chance to defend themselves. Vigilante "justice" is not the answer.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

Cops have started their own Online Predator Sting Operation show, with no-ties to the MSNBC show, "To Catch a Predator" show starring Chris Hansen.

The show is called: Inside: Predator Task Force

Internet predator sting snares Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department deputy

http://www.courttv.com/news/2007/1128/inside-predator-task-force_ctv.html

By Mallory Simon
Court TV

A California sheriff's deputy arrested in a sting operation targeting Internet child predators was charged Tuesday with two felonies for allegedly trying to meet someone whom he thought was a 13-year-old girl for sex.

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department deputy Joseph Mican Abadla Carlos, 31, was charged with meeting a minor for lewd purposes and an attempted lewd act upon a child under the age of 14.

The sting by the South Bay Predator Task Force, which resulted in the arrest of Carlos and three other men, was filmed by Court TV as part of a special called "Inside: Predator Task Force." The task force, created by the Hawthorne Police Department with detectives from six other police departments, arrested 15 people during its 12-day operation. (VIDEO)

The show examines the task force's efforts to track down predators by logging the conversations adults have with decoys, whom they believe are underage girls. It follows officers as they arrange meetings with the suspects, set up surveillance and make arrests once the suspects make contact with the decoy.

In March, a police detective posing as a 13-year-old girl began chatting online with a person police believed to be Carlos. In the chat, the person said he wanted to have sex with the girl and asked her to call him. A 25-year-old volunteer, who would later pose as the girl, called the number to set up a meeting.

When the man questioned the volunteer about her age and why she was interested in meeting him, she said she was an eighth grader who was "curious" about "sex."

The man told the volunteer, "You don't sound 13."

"I'm kind of worried," he said. "This could be a sting operation or something. Is it?"

The volunteer tried to reassure him, but the man continued to press the issue. He asked her to "promise" and "swear" that it was not a sting.

"You're not a cop, are you?" he asked.

After she said no, he asked if she still wanted to meet. They agreed to meet at a Chevron gas station in Inglewood. She told him she would ride her bike to the station.

Police officers set up surveillance in and around the gas station as the decoy waited for the person, who had identified himself as "Joe."

In the filmed encounter, Carlos drove into the gas station, got out of his car and walked up to the decoy.

After Carlos told her he was "Joe," officers jumped out of their vehicles and ordered him to the ground. When police checked his pockets, they found a box of condoms.

"I'm so sorry," Carlos said. "I'll never do this again, I swear."

Carlos told them he was a deputy and that he had a weapon in his car.

"You just disgraced us," Sgt. Ti Goetz said to Carlos. "This is our worst fear come true."

"Mine too," Carlos said.

He pleaded with the officers, asking if he could "just go home."

"I would say you are in serious trouble, brother," an officer replied.

On the tape, Goetz said he was "thoroughly embarrassed" to arrest another police officer for trying to have sex with a minor.

"I'm all for catching predators," Goetz said. "But I'm really disappointed to get this one."

Carlos was placed in a squad car and taken in for questioning. Detectives asked him whether they would find any child pornography if they searched his computer.

Carlos, banging his hand on the table, insisted they would find nothing.

When pressed about the computer, Carlos put his head on his arm and began to cry.

"Once in a while there's a bad apple that gets into law enforcement, just like anywhere else," one of the officers said on the tape. "We all have a black eye now."

Carlos has been free on bail since his arrest on March 31.

He was placed on paid leave following the arrest, according to a press release from the district attorney's office, but on Nov. 9, a spokesman for Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca said the department had begun termination proceedings against Carlos.

He faces four years in state prison if convicted.

"Inside: Predator Task Force" will air on December 2 at 10 p.m. ET on Court TV.

So, with or without Perverted Justice, the police have taken the lead set by MSNBC's "To Catch a Predator" and started their own sting operation and show.

What will people who are against Perverted Justice say now, since this clone to the "To Catch a Predator" show does the same thing, without Perverted Justice being involved?

 

[ilbob]

And it is a predator problem. We see it happen quite often, and we need to be aware of it, and on the look out for it.

I am wondering why it is no longer a predator issue when the girl turns 18?

I also do not consider teenagers to be children. Many drive, hold jobs, etc. They are not exactly innocent 3 year olds as some would try to make out.

I think someone that would abuse a young child needs to be dealt with harshly. I am less concerned about a 16 or 17 YO. I realize we have to draw the line somewhere, but in some states the line is drawn so that it is OK for a 16 YO to have sex with a 14 YO, but the day the 16 YO turns 17 it is a felony. Does that make any sense? And why is it OK for a 16 YO and not a 26 YO? They are both aware of the law, and are equally aware what is going on is illegal.

 

[divemedic]

If they get a fair trial, I dont have a problem with it. I do have a problem with this:

But Laura, who chats posing as a girl between the ages of 10 and 13, admits that the men who take her bait haven't committed any crime: "It's a fine line. These guys are showing their intentions, they're taking overt steps for hooking up with a child, but technically they haven't done it, so from a law-enforcement point of view there is nothing to arrest yet."

and then:

There's no arrest, no charge, no reading of Miranda rights, no trial by jury for the guys whose mugs appear on the Perverted Justice site. The "charge" is simply "wannabe pedophile." After volunteers from the site call to confirm their phone numbers, they are literally tried in the Internet court of public opinion; <snip>
The crime doesn't occur until they attempt to meet the kid or they actually meet the kid with the intent to have sex. What they say on the Internet and what they say on the phone just isn't enough."
<snip>
On his profile, Frank Fencepost offers a list of what outraged readers of the site should not (wink), do with the phone numbers of the men who appear on the site: "Posting these numbers in Gay Phone Sex Chat:1 is a terrible, terrible thing. Don't do THAT ... please, don't do THAT. Do not offer these phone numbers to Jehovah's Witnesses, telling them that you need as many prayer meetings as you can get."

The police doing it means a trial, and evidence. Not some a-hole and his internet friends slamming someone by calling his boss and cell numbers to ruin his life.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

Don't care for the show, personally, but a kiddie raper is a kiddie raper... When you're 28 or 32 or 23 or 55 and you go to a 12 or 13 yr olds home to get your rocks off, your rocks should be removed rather unceremoniously with a pair of pruning shears, period.
Its hard enough for a kid to grow up normal without pedophile scum preying on them...
as one post says (wrongly)"I also do not consider teenagers to be children. Many drive, hold jobs, etc. They are not exactly innocent 3 year olds as some would try to make out." So if a 11 year old girl comes to your house to mow your lawn, she is obviously a self-employed, responsible person and should be legal... Legal age in WA where I'm at is 16. Anything younger than that is Rape of a Child 1 2 0r 3 depending on the perverts level of perversion.

 

[jaholder1971]

Respectfully, you are wrong. That is why we have "Attempt" to commit a crime. That's why these men are being charged with "Attempting to solicit sex with a minor", and NOT "Sex with a minor".

But they're not soliciting sex from a minor, they're soliciting sex from another adult pretending to be a kid. Creepy, but I really don't see a crime here.

There is an explosion of child molestation in the US.

No there isn't, you just hear about it more because it makes great ratings.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

But they're not soliciting sex from a minor, they're soliciting sex from another adult pretending to be a kid. Creepy, but I really don't see a crime here.

It doesn't matter that their not ACTUALLY minors. Just like when police set up stings for prostitution, the people in the sting do not have to actually be prostitutes.

The mere fact that the men THINK it's a minor they are coming to meet shows intent.

Example: The DNR sets up a fake robo deer for poachers to shoot. Once the poachers attempt to shoot the fake deer, there arrested.

Would it be better to put a real living deer tied down for a poacher to shoot at, to make it legal?

It is well within the law for the police to use such tactics as fake minors, fake prostitutes, fake hitmen, and many other such things. It's called, trickery.

They could be charged with meeting a minor for lewd purposes and an attempted lewd act upon a child under the age of 14.

 

[Albatross]

You guys caught me. You guys musta been Dateline "reporters" in another life or something?

It is sadly too true, that anyone who expects teenagers to have self respect and make halfway intelligent decisions all by themselves secretly harbors uncontrollable desire towards their young supple bodies.

/What a screwed up place you fellows casting such aspersions must live in.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

What appalls me is how someone can defend someone who:

1.) Talk to someone they think is underage about graphic sexual things.

2.) Get in their cars and DRIVE to their houses to meet them.

3.) Enters a complete STRANGERS house. (This takes huge cojones to do.)

4.) Actually expect an underage child to be there.

How can you defend this?