Is enjoyment a reason to carry a specific CCW?

[armoredman]

Here's my take - I carry what I like to shoot due to the fact that it refreshes skills to practice regularly. At work I qualify with the Glock 19 or Glock 17 every year, Expert or Distinguished Expert. I don't like the Glock sidearm, the trigger, the fit or feel of the grip, nada. I fully recognize it is a fine functional firearm, but I don't enjoy shooting it, when I have found other pistols that I do enjoy shooting. You see, when I enjoy shooting a certain firearm, I tend to become more proficient with said firearm, especially if I can use it with some sort of official training. If I do not like my carry sidearm, and do not care to practice with it, I will tend to become less proficient, and skills with firearms IS a degradable skill. Otherwise PDs wouldn't have qualifications at all.
So, having said all that, I routinely qualify with said Glock pistol to a higher standard than many of my co-workers. Because, for strictly personal reasons, I do not care for the sidearm, I chose to carry my CZ SP-01 Phantom, a reliable and dependable sidearm which I do enjoy shooting at the range. This encourages practice.
Therefore, I can say, with legal qualifications in place, I carry a sidearm that I enjoy shooting, which tends to encourage proficiency. This in turn can lead to a safer environment if in the statistically rare possibility that I have to employ deadly physical force to defend my life or the life of a third person according to Arizona Revised Statutes, in that my shots may be more accurate than a lesser trained person. I do not enjoy carrying the firearm - less weight on my belt would always be better, but in that SCOTUS has ruled that the heavy burden of defense of self IS on my shoulders, it behooves me as a responsible citizen to carry the best firearm that I can, and one that I will practice with regularly.
As for this quote,

Honestly, if I were working in a permit office or licensing agency & someone told me they enjoy having a concealed carry gun, Id deny the application.

Glad you don't work here, and very glad that even if you did, you couldn't affect anyone carrying a concealed firearm.

And though this seems like such a pat answer to this question...

...the chance that you will need a defensive weapon on a particular day are indeed infinitesimal, but the chances that you will need one, whether for deterrence or for something more serious, at least once during your lifetime are much, much, higher...

It is true. It's not the odds, it's the stakes.

in only one way does this sentence make sense,

status goes a long way for those of us that qualify for a ccw..... for those who have spent far to much time in the jail house .... their symbol of status does just the opposite..... so yes in a way it is a status symbol......

Inmates practice in concealing weapons in unusual and bizarre locations, so one who is an expert in concealing contraband might indeed gain some status in the cell block, or will simply be the guy who gets tasked to hide all the cell phones and shanks on his run. Most likely the latter.

 

[Fiv3r]

I don't carry a gun I am not proficient with. If it's not reliable and accurate in my hands, it stays home for range use.

That said, every gun I carry I enjoy to some degree. Be it the lines and slim fit of a 1911, the accuracy of my 92fs, the rugged construction of a Ruger sp101, etc. I even ENJOY a .380 pocket pistol as an engineering marvel that allows me to carry a center fire handgun in the same pocket where I keep my cell phone when a larger gun is impossible or impractical.

I don't believe that most high road posters who work outside of the military or police fields strap on their carry firearm with a grimace in the morning. I don't think that anyone WANTS to or would ENJOY having to use their gun, but I'm sure that a chosen self defense firearm has a least some level of personal preference of some level of enjoyment built into it.

 

[KodeFore]

You are American. You don't need a reason long as it's legal and you accept responsibility for your actions with it, carry what you want.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by ljnowell: We have finally reached the point of magazine writer induced paranoia that if we admit online we like our concealed carry pieces we will be convicted in a court trial.

No one has argued that anyone "will be convicted" for anything. What has been pointed out is that statements that can indicate state of mind can prove extremely troublesome, and perhaps pivotal, in a defense of justification in a case in which the evidence available after the fact is not clear.

And to clarify further, saying that we "like" a carry piece was not the original question. The question was whether liking a gun for a particular reason that might not sound very good to triers of fact would be a good reason to carry that gun in lieu of a firearm that the same person might regard as a better choice of self defense. And, of course, making a statement to that effect....

Paranoia? No. What we have pointed out is based on real cases. One case related to the number of magazines carried by a citizen involved in a shooting, a subject that was raised in the discussion here; an accusation was made, and refuted by expert witnesses. Others have pertained to the type of gun used. Others, to the existence of written materials used to indicate state of mind. The tapestry is sufficiently complete to support reasonable conclusions concerning combinations of all three.

"Magazine writer induced"? Well, some of the information above has in fact been published in magazine articles and books, and some has appeared on the web.

One who is skeptical about those reports, and that means one who has failed to note the references to the real cases, would be well served to take a course in use of force law that covers this among other subjects. This is a good one, well worth the time and money.

What that will give you is more than substantiation and understanding. It can provide, importantly, advice on how to best stay out of the kind of trouble we have been discussing here.

The reality is that if we have to produce a firearm for serious business, and if we have to fire it, our fate will rest not on a sound stage recording that shows every aspect to the event, but on what piecemeal evidence can be assembled after the event; some critical evidence may never appear, because it was lost or never found, or because it is ruled inadmissible. Other evidence, including witness testimony (often unreliable even when given honestly) may be contradictory.

On does not want to create a piece of evidence that could harm one's case.

 

[skoro]

Do you ever carry a specific handgun or caliber simply because you "enjoy" it even if you believe there are better options available for CCW?

Very often. I like revolvers, so I tend to carry a 38 snub even though I have a comparably sized 9mm with more capacity available.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Fiv3r: I don't carry a gun I am not proficient with. If it's not reliable and accurate in my hands, it stays home for range use.

Exceptionally good advice, in my opinion.

 

[dirtman]

Kleanbore,

According to Webster’s unabridged dictionary of the English language 1979…

“Status = Condition or position with regard to the law. Example given As her status is that of a married woman.”

In my view status is confirmed any time someone is issued a valid ccw…..
In the eyes of the law, that ccw gives you the status to carry that fire arm, it is a symbol of your status to carry……

It would appear our discussion is a simple misunderstanding of the semantics of the English language.

Armoredman,
With regard to any felon or person guilty of some type of high crime…..
Their status will likely prevent the issue of a ccw for a period of time to be determined by the local governing body.
In no way was I suggesting that someone in jail should carry concealed.

all the best, dirt

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by dirtman: In the eyes of the law, that ccw gives you the status to carry that fire arm, it is a symbol of your status to carry……

Status, yes; symbol? I don't think so.

But one more time, the statement was that carrying a gun is "more of a status symbol than anything". If the gun is concealed---if its presence is not known to anyone else--it cannot and does not symbolize anything to anyone other than the carrier.

It is certainly more than a status symbol.

And, of course, a felon carrying a gun does not have anything that gives him the "legal status to carry that firearm."

With regard to any felon or person guilty of some type of high crime…..
Their status will likely prevent the issue of a ccw for a period of time to be determined by the local governing body.

Actually, it will result in the forfeiture of their gun rights forever, under Federal law, regardless of any determination by any local governing body.

Do not assume, however, that they are not armed.

 

[GOPerfect]

When I lived in Pittsburgh PA & obtained a new CCW permit from the local Sheriff's Dept(now a "office" ), the deputy asked me what the purpose was. I asked for target shooting & personal protection.
The LE agency or public service agency does not care about what you enjoy.
They don't care about your feelings, your emotions or what your "favorite" gun is.

Honestly, if I were working in a permit office or licensing agency & someone told me they enjoy having a concealed carry gun, Id deny the application.

Are you serious? You would deny someone their Right because they said they enjoyed carrying a handgun? Kinda arrogant, don't you think. These rights were not given to us, they should not be "taken" away because you or someone else doesn't like their reason for ownership.

You gonna stop someone from voting if they say they love to vote?

 

[Spats McGee]

Do you ever carry a specific handgun or caliber simply because you "enjoy" it even if

Going back to the original question:

Do you ever carry a specific handgun or caliber simply because you "enjoy" it even if you believe there are better options available for CCW?

Yes, but not solely because I enjoy it. There may be better options for CCW than what I carry. However, if I enjoy shooting a given pistol, I'm more likely to practice with it, and more likely to carry it. I don't want to carry a pistol with which: (a) I am a terrible shot; (b) because I can't stand to practice with it.

 

[Bobson]

I guess I have been missing out on the fun. I have always carried a gun because I wanted to protect myself and my family, or because it was my job. In neither case did enjoyment or fun enter into it. Fun shooting is fine on the range or when rolling cans on a friend's farm. Carrying a gun is for serious and maybe deadly reality.

Jim

I agree.

I do enjoy what I carry, but that's not why I carry it. Rather, the reasons I carry are the same reasons I enjoy. Namely, proven reliability, and because I'm successful with it.

 

[TennJed]

When I lived in Pittsburgh PA & obtained a new CCW permit from the local Sheriff's Dept(now a "office" ), the deputy asked me what the purpose was. I asked for target shooting & personal protection.
The LE agency or public service agency does not care about what you enjoy.
They don't care about your feelings, your emotions or what your "favorite" gun is.

Honestly, if I were working in a permit office or licensing agency & someone told me they enjoy having a concealed carry gun, Id deny the application.

Why in the world would/should that question even be asked? It is none of their business why i am getting a permit.

 

[TennJed]

So, if you were in a permit office & a applicant comes in with some off-the-wall or bizarre excuse(s), you'd say; sure, here ya go, here's your CCW, have a nice day."
Say what you choose, I stand by my remarks.

I hope you are not serious about that statement. Who are you to decide what is off the wall and bizarre. What if the guy working in the really doesn't like guns and is just getting a paycheck? Carrying for protection may be bizarre to him since some people do believe that.

With all due respect your stance is very hypocritical. What gives you the right to carry a gun but not people you find weird. I am glad i live in MS and not a state over run my voters like you. Shall issue, look into it

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't carry a gun I am not proficient with. If it's not reliable and accurate in my hands, it stays home for range use.

Yep. Great attitude to have because no matter what your feelings or preferences are, proficiency with your carry gun has to trump everything else.

Otherwise you are just a liability and setting yourself up to hurt yourself or someone else.

I worry about my father for this reason. He has a permit, but never practices. I don't think he actually ever carries though, so figure out that logic.

 

[JohnBiltz]

The original question:
Do you ever carry a specific handgun or caliber simply because you "enjoy" it even if you believe there are better options available for CCW?

No. What you carry is a complicated decision balancing reliability, comfort, capacity, caliber and experience with the weapon. That is what I base my decision on. I don't believe that guns have souls or there is a spiritual connection to a weapon. I believe a gun is a tool and you match the tool to the task. Yes some guns are more fun to shoot, yes I enjoy shooting some guns more than others. But that is not what the question was.

I don't believe there is a perfect CCW and I certainly don't believe that everyone should be carrying that same perfect weapon. I even think that circumstances can change what you should be carrying. But I don't believe enjoyment of a certain firearm should be dictating your choice of CCW if you yourself believe there is a better choice. I don't enjoy carrying. I think its a damn shame that I think it is a good idea. But if you are going to do it then do it right.

 

[JR24]

I consider the Glock 23 to be the perfect combination of size, weight, capacity and firepower. It may be the perfect carry gun.

I agree with the above. Yet my Glock 23 generally sits in the safe and I carry my Glock 21 (or 30S when its hot), or 1911's. I shoot the .45's MAYBE a bit better, and perhaps they are a tad more effective (debatable of course), and yes, the Glock 21 holds the same # of rounds for more weight and significantly less concealability.

But I like my .45's better. So that's what I carry.

 

[Kleanbore]

JohnBlitz put it very well indeed.

 

[BSA1]

True story about a self-defense case I know about.

The defendant was on the stand getting questioned aggressively by the Prosecuter. The D.A. asked "isn't it true that the gun you used was your favorite?"

The defendant thought about it for a long moment then replied "It is now."

The Prosecutor, immediately realizing mistake, then tried to get his own question removed from the record!

The defendant was found not guilty by the jury.

So the point is how you answer a question is more important than the question itself.

 

[mavracer]

But I don't believe enjoyment of a certain firearm should be dictating your choice of CCW if you yourself believe there is a better choice. I don't enjoy carrying. I think its a damn shame that I think it is a good idea. But if you are going to do it then do it right.

I live in a place where there's urban areas that I agree it is a damn shame I feel I have to carry, but I'm also near enough to areas that are rural and where breaking out your carry gun for impromptu shooting fun can happen too.

I fail to see how a prosecutor is going to spin me carrying an arguably less effective gun is going to hurt my case.

Prosecutor "Why were you carrying that particular gun"
me " I mistakenly though the odds of my life being threatened were pretty low"

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by mavracer: I fail to see how a prosecutor is going to spin me carrying an arguably less effective gun is going to hurt my case.

You were replying to JohnBlitz, whose point was about criteria for selecting a carry weapon. He didn't mention anything about courts or related issues.

Regarding legal issues, and those really should be secondary, the questions are whether, in a trial in which the piecemeal evidence gathered after the fact presents an unclear picture regarding justification, (1) will the weapon that is introduced as evidence and that remains in view of the jury for the duration contribute to a damaging impression of the defendant, and (2) has the defendant created anything about his choice of weapon or about anything else, for that matter, that could be used to portray state of mind in an unfavorable way.

Back to John's comment. I really think this is key:

What you carry is a complicated decision balancing reliability, comfort, capacity, caliber and experience with the weapon. That is what I base my decision on. I don't believe that guns have souls or there is a spiritual connection to a weapon. I believe a gun is a tool and you match the tool to the task. ....
I don't believe there is a perfect CCW and I certainly don't believe that everyone should be carrying that same perfect weapon. I even think that circumstances can change what you should be carrying.

 

[Kleanbore]

Enjoyment?

That will differ among people.

I am a long-time firearms enthusiast. Many of the handguns that I have long considered desirable--several .22 target pistols, single action revolvers from Colt, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson, a Smith and Wesson .44 Triple Lock, and the .357 Registered Magnum, to cite a few examples--would never make my list of what to strap on for concealed carry.

As JohnBlitz said, the choice involves balancing different things. For me, reliability, safety, "shootability" are paramount, but I have to be able to conceal it comfortably, and that introduces the need for compromise--a slightly shorter grip, for example.

I have to be able to draw fast, and shoot rapidly with combat accuracy. Not t hurt people, but to improve my chances of coming home unhurt.

The handguns that score highest for me for CCW in terms of balanced criteria today are as John put it, tools.

I never understood "a gun is a tool, Marion" in reference to that really nice Colt SAA that Shane carried. But for me, it sure applies to a Glock or an XD or an M&P9c.

Now, should someone choose to carry a Model 1911, and I do not, and should that someone's history make that gun special to him, that someone might well reasonably say that he enjoys that gun. And for understandable reasons that would be unlikely to reflect poorly on him.

 

[mavracer]

You were replying to JohnBlitz, whose point was about criteria for selecting a carry weapon. He didn't mention anything about courts or related issues.

Sorry my phone won't let me double space.

 

[jmr40]

I own several guns that I really like, and I shoot them at the range every chance I get. But if there is any chance of a REAL threat nostalgia and romance play no role in my decision. I use the guns I trust the most. If I can also enjoy using that particular gun all the better.