This post kinda makes me wonder. If a weapon discharges when it aint supposed to, Human involvment is always there. period. Weapons dont grow rounds in there chamber. Now if you were out drunk fooling around with your gun and it goes off thats obviously negligent (as I'm sure we will all agree on). If your an honest gun owner who follows all the rules the best you can and you have a discharge, could that maybe be complacency? Think about it, you do the same thing every time with no problems all of a sudden BAM. of course its not your fault, you've been doing it for X amount of years the same way, or were you lucky? or doing it wrong? Do discharges happen, you bet they do, lets just learn from it. Guns do not just go off for no reason. Lets reterm it accidental negligent discharge.
Is it accidental or negligent discharge?
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But the acronym would be AND, and we'd get a bunch of "Who's on First?" type jokes not to mention the "Ever had an AND?" questions followed by "AND WHAT...?!" responses.
Shouldn't it be NAD anyway? No, then there would be a bunch of "NAD? What's that?" questions.
NDs and ADs are distinguishable, however, so sticking with the two acronyms might be the best thing after all....
RoyRapoport
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Speaking of animals and guns, here's my girlfriend's dog in Alaska:
Yesterday a buddy handed me a 10/22. He had removed the mag and pulled the bolt back before handing it to me. I then checked to make sure the mag was out and pulled the bolt 3/4 of the way back and looked up into the action. I then tried the trigger and the gun fired! I couldn't believe it. I have handled guns daily since I was 10 and I'm almost 40 and had one other NG ever. I don't know if the extractor is not extracting or what, but it was a free lesson in pull the bolt back and then LOOK INTO THE EMPTY CHAMBER TO MAKE SURE!
Another story. I was at a gun shop and the guns are lined in a rack on the wall. You can just walk up to them and get one you want to look at. I picked up a cool Winchester 1890 and roboticly pumped it to make sure it was empty and a live round popped out! I like to have freaked. Then another round came out of the magazine and chambered. This gun was sitting there available to anyone.
Never trust. Double check. And still never piont that thing at anyone no matter what.
I kept thinking about the 10/22 incident when I was going to sleep last night and was thanking the Lord the round just flew into a wooden fence. A lot of lives can change in one second.
Another story. I was at a gun shop and the guns are lined in a rack on the wall. You can just walk up to them and get one you want to look at. I picked up a cool Winchester 1890 and roboticly pumped it to make sure it was empty and a live round popped out! I like to have freaked. Then another round came out of the magazine and chambered. This gun was sitting there available to anyone.
Never trust. Double check. And still never piont that thing at anyone no matter what.
I kept thinking about the 10/22 incident when I was going to sleep last night and was thanking the Lord the round just flew into a wooden fence. A lot of lives can change in one second.
TallPine
Member
My definition:
AD: gun fires when you weren't intending it to but you were following all safety rules so no harm done (example: de-cocking a single action, hammer slips from thumb and bullet goes into the ground)
ND: any other case
AD: gun fires when you weren't intending it to but you were following all safety rules so no harm done (example: de-cocking a single action, hammer slips from thumb and bullet goes into the ground)
ND: any other case
Betty
Member
RoyRapoport, Great photo!
I had a "combo" ND/AD once - AD on the part of one person and ND on the part of another. The AD: I chambered a Ruger MK 1 and the firearm discharged. The pistol was pointed at the ground with my finger safely on the side of the frame as usual.
Why was it also an ND? The owner of the pistol said afterwards, "I've never cleaned that gun in years and years." The neglect resulted in gunk sticking around the firing pin area, as my brother discovered later when he disassembled his friend's pistol. The pistol was in horrible shape inside. The firing pin was most likely protruding after the last time it was fired, resulting in my slam fire.
The guy had the nerve to look at me and say, "What did you just do to my gun?"
What did I learn? Don't assume everybody maintains their firearms as well as you do.
I had a "combo" ND/AD once - AD on the part of one person and ND on the part of another. The AD: I chambered a Ruger MK 1 and the firearm discharged. The pistol was pointed at the ground with my finger safely on the side of the frame as usual.
Why was it also an ND? The owner of the pistol said afterwards, "I've never cleaned that gun in years and years." The neglect resulted in gunk sticking around the firing pin area, as my brother discovered later when he disassembled his friend's pistol. The pistol was in horrible shape inside. The firing pin was most likely protruding after the last time it was fired, resulting in my slam fire.
The guy had the nerve to look at me and say, "What did you just do to my gun?"
What did I learn? Don't assume everybody maintains their firearms as well as you do.
If the trigger is activated by a person while not on target it is a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. If the gun is dropped and fires it is a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE.
If there is a mechanical failure and the gun fires without the trigger being touched it is an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE.
I had an MP5 "cook off" once I fired one three round burst out of a 30 round mag and 'zip' 27 others followed with out my permission.
NEGLIGENT as the operator, I let the gun get way too hot.
Regards,
HS/LD
If there is a mechanical failure and the gun fires without the trigger being touched it is an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE.
I had an MP5 "cook off" once I fired one three round burst out of a 30 round mag and 'zip' 27 others followed with out my permission.
NEGLIGENT as the operator, I let the gun get way too hot.
Regards,
HS/LD
dd-b
Member
Nearly always negligent -- the only time it's not negligent is if the weapon is defective and there's no reasonable way the owner could have seen early symptoms of the problem. I'm sure there's something that can go wrong suddenly and without prior symptoms in some gun design somewhere.
Sometimes the negligence isn't primarily on the part of the person holding the gun at the time -- particularly when training a new shooter, it's the responsibility of the trainer to prevent ND, since the new shooter can't be expected to know enough to be safe at the beginning. (Primary method -- keep ammo well away until the shooter does know enough to be safe.)
Sometimes the negligence isn't primarily on the part of the person holding the gun at the time -- particularly when training a new shooter, it's the responsibility of the trainer to prevent ND, since the new shooter can't be expected to know enough to be safe at the beginning. (Primary method -- keep ammo well away until the shooter does know enough to be safe.)
bogie
Member
Some of 'em oughta be called "idiotic" discharges...
As for cooking off - Odds are it got hot or dirty enough that some internal parts no longer meshed correctly. It takes a little while, even in a HOT barrel, for a round to cook off.
As for cooking off - Odds are it got hot or dirty enough that some internal parts no longer meshed correctly. It takes a little while, even in a HOT barrel, for a round to cook off.
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