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Is it EVER useful to call 911

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Cosmoline, Jul 2, 2003.

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  1. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I've been thinking about this. Obviously, you have to call the cops if somebody is shot. But if you simply scare off intruders or defuse the situation (esp. with a firearm) what possible good can ever come from calling the cops or reporting the incident to them? Best case scenario they do little or nothing. Worst case they decide to investigate *you*.

    I doubt I would even call the cops if shots were fired but missed. That seems to be the prevailing attitude where I live now. I didn't USED to feel that way, but I've heard so many stories about cops turning against armed citizens. I also know how the system works, and I know the cops are not really there to protect you, but to look for someone to prosecute.

    Will someone remind me, why do we have cops, anyway?
     
  2. pax

    pax Member

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    When the police arrive on the scene of an altercation, they are looking for
    • the reportee (the guy who called in)
    • the victim (the good guy, the one who was wronged), and
    • the perpetrator (the bad guy, the one who was at fault).
    This may be three separate people, or it may be two people with the role of the victim and of the reportee belonging to the same person. All cops know in their bones that the perpetrator never calls in because bad guys don't like dealing with Johnny Law.

    If you are involved in an altercation and do not call in, the best you can hope for is that the bad guy doesn't, either. If the bad guy calls in, the responding officer will believe that you are the bad guy and treat you accordingly. (Remember, the one who calls in is the good guy in the minds of the responding officers.) If this happens, the police report will be slanted against you and you may be hauled in, in handcuffs, rather than being treated as an upstanding citizen who justly defended himself.

    It costs money to fix that kind of mistake, and an unfavorable police report is hard to get past if the whole thing goes to trial.

    pax
     
  3. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Good point. I'm starting to really wonder about my last question, though. Why DO we have them?
     
  4. willyjixx

    willyjixx Member

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    cuz some people dont want to defend themselves?

    i have heard that depending on the amount of calls of various areas will determine the amount of patrolls an more personnel in the .......High Risk? .......areas.
     
  5. blades67

    blades67 Member

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    Yup. Has saved me from serious trouble.
     
  6. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Sure it is! Here are some examples:

    1. Cat stuck up in the tree

    2. Neighbor's grass is too tall

    3. You locked yourself out of your house

    4. There are aliens peeking into your windows

    5. The TV remote is missing

    6. Any others ...?


    :D
     
  7. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Pax nailed it - "Thrice blest is he who gets his blow in fust!" If you don't call it in, the BG may very well do so, and thus he automatically becomes the White Knight in the eyes of the law. You have just become the Black Knight - and when the cops come to ask you some pointed questions, and you deny their implications, but are carrying a gun, guess what the cops are going to think - and do???

    If we've acted within the law, we should submit to the scrutiny of the law. To avoid doing so always gives the impression of acting illegally. There's a guy in the prison where I work, doing five-to-ten on a firearms charge, who I believe is telling the truth when he states that he was defending himself against a teenage would-be mugger. No shots were fired, the BG went away, and he simply went about his business rather than report the incident. Unfortunately for him, three witnesses in surrounding apartments reported that they'd seen a White man holding up a Black youth, at gunpoint - and two of them noted the make, model, color and registration of the guy's car as he drove away. Next thing he knew, he was felony-stopped on the road, handcuffed, jailed, and in due course, sentenced for assault with a deadly weapon. And all because he didn't dial 911...
     
  8. Cal4D4

    Cal4D4 Member

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    Most 911 calls are taped (evidence with controlled custody). Identify yourself and the threat. If necessary, establish that you are at risk, if you're armed and where you are, what you look like. This could be very helpful to you or your widow in court someday.
     
  9. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    Its a good idea too. If you were an LEO, how you you approach a house where shots were fired and that was the only info you had? Could be a pretty bad scenerio. I didnt call 911 though, i called the locals directly, to aviod being on hold...
     
  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    "If we've acted within the law, we should submit to the scrutiny of the law."

    I'm afraid I don't agree with that at all. The law should leave us alone unless we're harming someone else. Certainly, the notion that innocent men have nothing to fear from law enforcement is naive and dangerous. However, I do see the point about being the one who calls first in case the goblin makes the report.
     
  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Basically, there are a lot of good responses here that reinforce my decision to move to a remote parcel in Alaska, build a very high fence, surround myself with guard dogs and remove myself from the grid with no phone number and no address. By the time anyone gets to me, they will have to have have busted the fence and killed the dogs, at which point I will not hesitate to open up on them with everything I have.

    Of course, with my luck they'll be a SWAT team sent in on some neighbor's report that there's a strange guy behind a tall fence with a bunch of guard dogs and he's growing *something* in there :D

    Let's face it, the modern world already is a police state.
     
  12. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    I'm surprised nobody has said this....

    SOMEBODY has to get rid of the body, and it ain't going to be ME! :D
     
  13. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Sure. Someone has to come and cart away the bodies...
     
  14. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Cosmoline, you and I must be related somewhere way back along the way

    Or else, we suffer from the same ailment.

    :D

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it :)
     
  15. Darrin

    Darrin Member

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    My call to 911 saved my friend's life, FWIW.
     
  16. Graystar

    Graystar Member

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    Even if you scared off the bad guy, you are technically a crime victim and you should report the incident.

    Non-reporting is why government defensive-use stats are so low. *Make* the cops record the fact that you used your gun in self-defense.
     
  17. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Bodies? No problem. Just have a few pigs around, don't feed them for a few days, and *presto* no more troubles.
     
  18. CWL

    CWL Member

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    The good guys don't always win armed encounters unscathed.

    I don't think that those with access to 911 services would have this attitude if they were bleeding-out after an injury.
     
  19. Kobun

    Kobun Member

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    Someone has been watching too many movies. Snatch maby. :D

    Calling the cops are usefull some times.
    I was standing on the sidewalk on a bridge that was closed for traffic, and a motorcycle came ON the sidewalk.
    He forced himself passed me, bumping me with the handlebar.
    I did something stupid, I kicked the cycle!
    Oh, he got mad allright!
    I figured I didn't want to have anything to do with him, so I punched the emergency number on my phone, but did not push dial, to give him one more chance.
    He was still agitated and threatening, so I pushed dial.
    The cops answered, I told them where I was and that a motorcycle had just hit me on the sidewalk...
    I described him and the cycle, licence plate and everything.
    The driver got more and more agitated. :D
    The cop told me to hang on, and I could hear him talking to someone.
    10 sec later we could hear the sirens.
    The driver of the motorcycle took off, and I told the cops the direction, and that I wasn't hurt.
    First then did I tell my name, as I didn't want the guy to hear my name.

    Nothing more happened, but I guess the guy got a "little" nervous. :uhoh:
    :D

    I know I did something dumb in the heat of the moment, but he was waaay out there legaly.
     
  20. Watchman

    Watchman Member

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    Another reason to call 911 and something else to consider...

    It appears that most of us here take the responsiblity of protecting themselves and their loved ones quite seriously, and that is as it should be.

    It is also our resonsiblity to do everything that we can to make sure that we come out on TOP of a bad scenario and that includes what will happen after the scenario is over.

    If possible and time permits, call 911. This is a legal record, and will be presented in court in the event that you had to cap somebody, use force or whatever. What it will prove is that you tired to do the right thing, and this fact is not lost upon judges, prosecuting attorneys and jurys.

    I can think of several incidents here in my hometown that the records of the call were used and played in court, to the benefit of those that called first, then acted. In cases where "fear for life" was stated, it has been argued that if the complainant truly feared for their life, they would have called 911. Now we all know that that could be totally bogus, but you have to understand that scum sucking lawers will make an issue of it, and if their are some sheeple on the jury then it will cause them to ponder aand become more suspicous of the motives.

    On the other hand, if you called, the cops were enroute, and you capped someone before they got there, it will go to your advantage if you did take the time to call first.

    Personally, I thinks that that's about all 911 does, is back up your story so to speak. In my part of the county, you are looking at an average 30 minute response time, a lot of things can happen in 30 minutes.

    Being a member of the local sheriffs dept, I know the things that can happen even if you call 911. You could get misrouted to the wrong adress, it make take the cops awhile to find it, you call may get put on hold if something more serious comes up. There are enough possible screwups that you need all of the advantage you can get.

    As for my neck of the woods, we get shots fired calls all the time. Usally its someone shooting a possum in their trash, a stray dog or cat, or some kids plinking with the 22's. Of course there is hunting season which covers 7 months of the year here. Its always amusing to confront new residents from the big citys, that dont know that it may be perfectly legal to hunt across the street from their new house.

    Occasionally, we'll even get a call that someone shot at an intruder in the barn or garage or horsestall. In most cases , the homeowner popped a 12 guage round up in the air to scare them. To me its no big deal. I dont get bent out of shape over it, the people are just protecting their turf.

    As for the cops "turning" against armed citizens, thats more of a big city thing where the cops only encounter bad guys with guns. Personally, I think you're a silly SOB if you dont have a gun, but hey, that s just me. A cop needs all the friends hs can get theses days,why aleinate someone just becuase they've got a gun ? NOT the smart thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2003
  21. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Well why do you think I have firearms? Zee Germans, of course :D
     
  22. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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  23. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Some common sense applies, too.

    If you have someone prowling your windows or back yard, or trying to enter your house, call.

    When the cops show up, don't be wandering the street with your AK-47 and the 75 round drum magazine.... don't be in the "two doors down" neighbor's yard. Unless you are in hostile contact, stash your heater back in the secret gun place when so as be the innocent victim/reporting party.

    If you are in hostile contact, make sure the cops can identify you from the bad guy, even if you have to put on a purple beret. (Presumably you'll be inside the house, but so might the hostile.... that's why you called.)

    Make sure you are identifiable and obviously non-hostile to the cops.
     
  24. Erik

    Erik Member

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    "Is it EVER useful to call 911?"

    Yes.

    You should always alert the proper authorities whenever you are witness to or or a victim of crime.
     
  25. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    "or else", right?

    Well, soon I won't have a phone, so it will be moot.
    :p
     
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