1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
LOOKY!
Cap'n! Your barrel is lockin' on the link!!!
Cap'n! Your barrel is lockin' on the link!!!
Is it necessary to flare a 1911's ejection port for reliability?
- Thread starter hnm201
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Dave Sample
member
Is
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Dave Sample
member
Just Lucky, I guess, Tuner.
stans
Member
Locking up on the link, must be a Colt. 
Dave Sample
member
It is a stock Officers Model Barrel installed in EAGLE 2. The lock up is great for a stock barrel and I guess you did not notice the marks on the lower lugs where it touches the slide stop pin when in battery. There were many reliablity "Clews" in those pictures, but you may need those new glasses to spot them. The gun shoots +P's 100% and there is no sign of battering anywhere. Just the normal rub marks where the gun finishes fitting itself. It does not like wimp loads but I did not build it as a target gun for semi wadcutters. It feeds Hydra-Shoks and GI ball just fine.
WE are doing another Short Sword that we put an Ed Brown barrel in and it was about a 10 hour job. It is a very high end gun though, so it was worth it. It should be in the Shot Show.
WE are doing another Short Sword that we put an Ed Brown barrel in and it was about a 10 hour job. It is a very high end gun though, so it was worth it. It should be in the Shot Show.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Clews
>>and I guess you did not notice the marks on the lower lugs where it touches the slide stop pin when in battery<<
____________________
Yep. I seen'em. What's the round count on that there pistole' Cap'n?
>>and I guess you did not notice the marks on the lower lugs where it touches the slide stop pin when in battery<<
____________________
Yep. I seen'em. What's the round count on that there pistole' Cap'n?
Jammer Six
member
'Tuner, what happens when a weapon locks up on the link?
And what happens when the lower lugs touch the slide stop pin?
I thought they were supposed to ride on the pin...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Lockin' on the Link
Here ya go Jammer. Put on a pot of coffee and settle back.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56380
On the second picture...the one of the barrel feet, viewed from the front of the barrel...it looks like the pin is beatin' on the tips of the feet, and they look kinda deformed. Hard to say from the pictures, so I don't know if Dave has actually cut a light, secondary radius in the feet to help support the lockup...but the crosspin is stopping near the tips, where they're not as sturdy as they are down in the radius...or what I lovingly call "The Cradle."
Stopping the slide on the tips of the feet leads to damage much earlier if the slide is allowed to go to battery on an empty chamber...Not as critical as long as the gun is feeding ammo.
Locking on the link is pretty common in factory ordnance spec guns...though Springfield has gotten much better lately with correctly fitted links on correctly spec-ed lugs...and as long as the lockup isn't tight, won't do any real harm for a while, other than peen the tips of the feet backward and delay linkdown timing to some degree. From here, it looks like
the link is locking the barrel vertically about a 16th of an inch.
Long-linking is a way to get more lug engagement in the slide, but generally works against accuracy because the barrel is supported on one center point instead of being solidly supported on two sides...as in when it's locked on the lower lug. The link is NOT supposed to provide vertical lock to any great degree...The function of the link is to unlock the barrel. It also acts as a sort of guide to keep it tracking in a fairly straight line, but that's incidental.
It also has to unlock the barrel at the right time...and the center-to-center length controls that.
Locking hard on the link also stresses the link pin hole in the barrel lug, and
can often lead to it wallowing out into an egg-shape...creating slop and further delaying linkdown timing. Many factory guns do lock on the link to some degree, and allows the gun to function well for a long time. Forcing the
barrel into tight vertical lock with the link will cause problems sooner rather than later. Delayed linkdown timing can damage the locking lugs on the barrel and in the slide if the barrel doesn't get down out of the way in time.
A too-short link can prevent the barrel from unlocking at all, if it's short enough...but for different reasons. The short link starts to unlock the barrel
while the slidestop pin is still under the lug. The lug and pin get one another into a bind, and the link is too short to let the lug off the pin. Damaged or sheared locking lugs result...or even a cracked slide.
Hope this helps...
Here ya go Jammer. Put on a pot of coffee and settle back.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56380
On the second picture...the one of the barrel feet, viewed from the front of the barrel...it looks like the pin is beatin' on the tips of the feet, and they look kinda deformed. Hard to say from the pictures, so I don't know if Dave has actually cut a light, secondary radius in the feet to help support the lockup...but the crosspin is stopping near the tips, where they're not as sturdy as they are down in the radius...or what I lovingly call "The Cradle."
Stopping the slide on the tips of the feet leads to damage much earlier if the slide is allowed to go to battery on an empty chamber...Not as critical as long as the gun is feeding ammo.
Locking on the link is pretty common in factory ordnance spec guns...though Springfield has gotten much better lately with correctly fitted links on correctly spec-ed lugs...and as long as the lockup isn't tight, won't do any real harm for a while, other than peen the tips of the feet backward and delay linkdown timing to some degree. From here, it looks like
the link is locking the barrel vertically about a 16th of an inch.
Long-linking is a way to get more lug engagement in the slide, but generally works against accuracy because the barrel is supported on one center point instead of being solidly supported on two sides...as in when it's locked on the lower lug. The link is NOT supposed to provide vertical lock to any great degree...The function of the link is to unlock the barrel. It also acts as a sort of guide to keep it tracking in a fairly straight line, but that's incidental.
It also has to unlock the barrel at the right time...and the center-to-center length controls that.
Locking hard on the link also stresses the link pin hole in the barrel lug, and
can often lead to it wallowing out into an egg-shape...creating slop and further delaying linkdown timing. Many factory guns do lock on the link to some degree, and allows the gun to function well for a long time. Forcing the
barrel into tight vertical lock with the link will cause problems sooner rather than later. Delayed linkdown timing can damage the locking lugs on the barrel and in the slide if the barrel doesn't get down out of the way in time.
A too-short link can prevent the barrel from unlocking at all, if it's short enough...but for different reasons. The short link starts to unlock the barrel
while the slidestop pin is still under the lug. The lug and pin get one another into a bind, and the link is too short to let the lug off the pin. Damaged or sheared locking lugs result...or even a cracked slide.
Hope this helps...
Jammer Six
member
I think I see.
And the damage on Sample's feet that you're talking about are the small marks running perpendicular to the barrel on the forward curve of the feet?
I'm off to study the other thread.
And the damage on Sample's feet that you're talking about are the small marks running perpendicular to the barrel on the forward curve of the feet?
I'm off to study the other thread.
Dave Sample
member
Well, Deary me. Let me explain to you that those marks I showed you are where they are supposed to be. Those marks are from the guide rod pushing the link into place when the gun returns to battery. They are a not a problem and they certainly aren't "Damage". This gun has a short slide and has had about 2000 rounds of hot ammo through it. There are no signs of wear that are not normal. The link and pin are Colt and the barrel is a $10.00 take out from Gunsite that I purchased from Ted Yost about 9 years ago at a Gun Show or at the range. It is very accurate and very pleasant shooting even with the +P loads it likes. I bought 5 or 6 of these stock barrels because no matter what I put in a 3" gun, they are as good as it gets for a Belly Gun". Also remember that this is not a Colt 1911. It is a Custom Caspian Commander lower end and Officers top end. This barrel locks up very tight and does a nice job of work. I still have a couple left out in the shop that also drop in very tight. I will guarantee you that if this barrel was not in there right, it would have self destructed right away. The springs are very strong in the recoil system and do a great job. It has been very reliable so far, but as Tuner knows, only time will tell.
Dave Sample
member
Here is a lowered port and notch I did many years ago. Now it's on the LWGI.
Jammer Six
member
I didn't realize the guide rod traveled that far.
Are you saying that the guide rod head travels up over the barrel feet?
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Marks
Quote:
Those marks are from the guide rod pushing the link into place when the gun returns to battery.
____________________
mm hmm...mm hmm...
Quote:
Those marks are from the guide rod pushing the link into place when the gun returns to battery.
____________________
mm hmm...mm hmm...
Dave Sample
member
Look at this picture and see if you can see where the rear of the guide rod lies. The slide stop pin goes through the hole in the link and the lower lugs rest on several areas while in lock up. The rear of the guide rod is pressed against the link at all times except whe the gun fires and the link pulls the barrel down.The marks on the tips of the lower lugs should be easy to figure out. They are from the slide stop pin. They are not serious and indicate a near perfect lock up. When blued guns fire, they leave marks inside unless they are very sloppy. Those marks are right in the center of where the slide stop pin rides.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Where it Lies
mm hmm. mmm hmm...
mm hmm. mmm hmm...
Jammer Six
member
I see. Thanks.
'Tuner, why do you think this weapon is riding the link?
Is it just the damage on the feet, or do you see something else?
'Tuner, why do you think this weapon is riding the link?
Is it just the damage on the feet, or do you see something else?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Why?
Jammer asked:
>>why do you think this weapon is riding the link?<<
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Specs. Could be one or more of a few things, Jammer...
Lower lug out of spec and can't lift the barrel high enough to get good lug engagement in the slide. Slide height above frame rails too high and the
barrel can't move into full engagement even if the lug IS right. Could even be a spec issue with the locking lugs themselves or even the slide...hard to say from here.
It's fairly common to see one lock on the link in some factory guns to some degree...but this one's off the scale. It might be the light/shadow effect, but my guess would be that if a link that was correct for the lug was in the gun, that it would almost operate as a straight blowback. I'm takin' a WAG and estimating that the barrel is standing on about .050 inch of link.
The link, when correctly fitted to the lug, should let the slidestop pin lightly
touch the forward radius of the lug, and cam the barrel up into vertical lock
on the shape and height of the lug...and still obtain at least 70% of lug engagement in the slide. If the barrel is well-fitted, it will cam into lockup
on the lug without involving the link at all. Many do lock on the link a little though...Colt has been known for it, but Springfield has pretty well gotten its act together on that point recently. My GI Mil-Spec cams up on the lug and I get very little vertical play at the rear of the barrel when I push down hard on the hood...maybe .003 inch or so. Not too shabby for an assembly-line
production pistol these days. My NRM Colt had a good link fit, but too much
vertical play in the barrel. I brought the frame rails down a little and the lockup is very good without play at the rear and it doesn't lock on the link at all. I did have to scrape the disconnector timing slot deeper after the slide sat lower on the frame, though...and the firing pin hits dang near dead-center now...or as near as my blurryold eyeballs can tell.
Jammer asked:
>>why do you think this weapon is riding the link?<<
____________________
Specs. Could be one or more of a few things, Jammer...
Lower lug out of spec and can't lift the barrel high enough to get good lug engagement in the slide. Slide height above frame rails too high and the
barrel can't move into full engagement even if the lug IS right. Could even be a spec issue with the locking lugs themselves or even the slide...hard to say from here.
It's fairly common to see one lock on the link in some factory guns to some degree...but this one's off the scale. It might be the light/shadow effect, but my guess would be that if a link that was correct for the lug was in the gun, that it would almost operate as a straight blowback. I'm takin' a WAG and estimating that the barrel is standing on about .050 inch of link.
The link, when correctly fitted to the lug, should let the slidestop pin lightly
touch the forward radius of the lug, and cam the barrel up into vertical lock
on the shape and height of the lug...and still obtain at least 70% of lug engagement in the slide. If the barrel is well-fitted, it will cam into lockup
on the lug without involving the link at all. Many do lock on the link a little though...Colt has been known for it, but Springfield has pretty well gotten its act together on that point recently. My GI Mil-Spec cams up on the lug and I get very little vertical play at the rear of the barrel when I push down hard on the hood...maybe .003 inch or so. Not too shabby for an assembly-line
production pistol these days. My NRM Colt had a good link fit, but too much
vertical play in the barrel. I brought the frame rails down a little and the lockup is very good without play at the rear and it doesn't lock on the link at all. I did have to scrape the disconnector timing slot deeper after the slide sat lower on the frame, though...and the firing pin hits dang near dead-center now...or as near as my blurryold eyeballs can tell.
Dean Taylor
Member
I have shot this 1911 hybred. I think it is perhaps the neatest pistol Dave has. It is very accurate and runs fine with 6 different types of ammo when the Captain and I had it at the Cooper Range at Gunsite. That day we even did a magazine with some 115 grain LSWC hot rods with out a burp. The Captain can still shoot rapid fire sweeps without a miss.
Dean
[email protected]
Dean
[email protected]
Wichaka
Member
Capn'
"Those marks are from the guide rod pushing the link into place when the gun returns to battery."
Captain Bling.........either I'm really missin' somethin' here........or a full explanation wasn't done, but never in a 1911 does the head of the guide rod rest on the link, barrel, or anything attached to it.......it rests on the frame inside the spring tunnel.
Bling;
The slide stop pin goes through the hole in the link and the lower lugs rest on several areas while in lock up.
What are the 'several' areas? I'm only aware of one........
I see where 'hybred' was used........which means..........? Other than the diff. makes of slide & frame.........?
Is this 1911 not put together the same as other 1911's............? or operate the same?
"Those marks are from the guide rod pushing the link into place when the gun returns to battery."
Captain Bling.........either I'm really missin' somethin' here........or a full explanation wasn't done, but never in a 1911 does the head of the guide rod rest on the link, barrel, or anything attached to it.......it rests on the frame inside the spring tunnel.
Bling;
The slide stop pin goes through the hole in the link and the lower lugs rest on several areas while in lock up.
What are the 'several' areas? I'm only aware of one........
I see where 'hybred' was used........which means..........? Other than the diff. makes of slide & frame.........?
Is this 1911 not put together the same as other 1911's............? or operate the same?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Never Rests
Quote:
>>never in a 1911 does the head of the guide rod rest on the link, barrel, or anything attached to it.......it rests on the frame inside the spring tunnel. <<
________________________
Whoopsie!
Dang Steve! Ya went and spoiled the surprise...
Quote:
>>never in a 1911 does the head of the guide rod rest on the link, barrel, or anything attached to it.......it rests on the frame inside the spring tunnel. <<
________________________
Whoopsie!
Dang Steve! Ya went and spoiled the surprise...
You guys don't understand things at all .... 
The Capt.'s gun is one of those "New School" designs, and a vast improvement over what Old Man Browning did. Obviously you don't comprehend the vast changes that New School thinking has brought about. Having the recoil spring guide push on the link and help hold the barrel in battery is just a minor accomplishment.
I supose the next step will be to hand-checker the guide's butt end ... That would be the untimate in bling ...
The Capt.'s gun is one of those "New School" designs, and a vast improvement over what Old Man Browning did. Obviously you don't comprehend the vast changes that New School thinking has brought about. Having the recoil spring guide push on the link and help hold the barrel in battery is just a minor accomplishment.
I supose the next step will be to hand-checker the guide's butt end ... That would be the untimate in bling ...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
New Designs
Aight gents...Let's keep'er on the High Road and give the man a chance to
explain how it works. Fuff! Stop 'at cussin'! You ain't too old for Art's grammaw to take ya out behind the woodshed.
Standin' by for the inside story...
Aight gents...Let's keep'er on the High Road and give the man a chance to
explain how it works. Fuff! Stop 'at cussin'! You ain't too old for Art's grammaw to take ya out behind the woodshed.
Standin' by for the inside story...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Understanding
No harm, no foul Fuff.. The Captain mighta worked out somethin' that we don't know about yet.
Waitin' for the technical data...
No harm, no foul Fuff..
The Captain mighta worked out somethin' that we don't know about yet. Waitin' for the technical data...
Dave Sample
member
The details are on the Autoloaders place. Check it out.
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