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Is it ok to ask someone else to sight in your rifle?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by mainecoon, Nov 4, 2022.

  1. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Truth, especially true with pistolas.
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what that means exactly....... but shooting positionally off of bags, or off of a bench using bags/bipod, I doubt we would shoot much differently. Elevation is controlled by the shooter, just like not yanking shots left or right.
     
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  3. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    I used to have a friend that was pretty hefty, to be nice, (still is a friend) and I'm on the slim-side. We used to shoot a lot, and found that a rifle/same rifle/same load that would shoot "on" for him, would shoot a bit high for me. A rifle that I zero'd would shoot low for him. This was the case with more than a few different rifles.

    What I think that means is that what the rifle recoils against has something to do with it. ? That's not to say you and V would shoot differently, just that that was my experience, which leads me to believe that one size does not fit all, meaning that a rifle zero'd for one person might not be zero'd for all people.
     
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  4. Archie

    Archie Member

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    It must be very comforting to be able to ignore reality. Dismissed.
     
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  5. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

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    I think that getting a rifle on paper and hitting at a desired POI is fine to have someone else do. But the person that will use the rifle should check the POI for their self.
    I went to the range today with my 82 year old father. He is going to use my Savage Axis 243 this year instead of his 700 30-06. He liked the idea of carrying a little lighter rifle.
    After sitting down and shooting the rifle I sighted in a year ago we walked down to look at the group.
    He had a huge smile when he saw the sub moa group. It was about 1/2" left and 3/4" high of the bull. I ask him if he wanted to change the scope. He instantly said no I'm good. I didn't think I could shoot that good anymore :) I asked if the rifles recoil was ok. He answered what recoil....
     
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  6. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I've sighted in lots of rifles for others but I always suggest they shoot it a few times theirselves. Some times there is a different point of impact depending on how the rifle is held.
     
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  7. Old Hobo

    Old Hobo Member

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    As WisBorn just said, it's reasonable to have someone sight it just to get it on the paper. Final sight-in MUST be done by you.

    There's a thousand parameters appertaining to each person's person's ability to accurately shoot a rifle (most of them in our own unique brain wiring; do any two people have the same central neurotransmittion speeds?, same peripheral neurotransmittion speeds?, same muscle contraction speeds, same sight picture as perceived by the back of your brain where sight is decoded and analyzed .... no no no .....). Even identical twins are not the same person times two. Humans are infinitely complex. We are the Creator's toy collection and He likes variety ... an infinite amount of it, actually.
    .
     
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  8. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    A guy do so yesterday! :eek:

    A 67 year-old rascal (who has never owned a gun scope) took my PTR-91 “classic GI” to the private club.

    He verified the 30/200-yard …aperture sight setting…, and made three of Six shots practically Touch each other at 50 yards- again, in the plastic orange bullseye !
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
  9. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I’ve logged hundreds of training hours as a student and have trained hundreds of new shooters myself - in no training course, manual, or certification requirement, and in no form of competition have I ever counted anything near a thousand parameters.

    There’s typically about 5-7 fundamentals of marksmanship, depending upon which doctrine you’re following. Some only 4 (“BRAS”). Breath control, sight picture, target picture, trigger control, stance/support. That’s really it.

    So many folks try to mystify newbies with claims like this and big words like peripheral neurotransmission speed (no double “t” in transmission, btw), but they’re simply not true. Accurate shooting is really as simple as building a rifle and ammo which CAN shoot small, and then applying simple techniques as a shooter to get out of the way so it WILL shoot small. Absolutely, some people can, will, and do shoot smaller than others, but there’s no sense in pretending putting groups together is some kind of combination of applied calculus and neuroscience…
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, it's relatively simple in concept.
     
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  11. frogfurr

    frogfurr Member

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    We are not talking a about shooting small here. We are talking about the point of impact changing from shooter to shooter.
     
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  12. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    The poster I quoted was not - his quote is visible.

    But to that end, POI’s don’t really change because light and steel don’t bend just because the shooter changes - trigger pullers jerk triggers differently. Thanks for comin’!
     
  13. frogfurr

    frogfurr Member

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    Well you can always have some fat guy at Wally World sight in your new rifle/scope combo. If it doesn't work out you can always explain light and steel bending to him along with trigger jerks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  14. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    If the “guy at Wally World” knows how to shoot, what exactly will happen to the light passing from the target around the front sight, through the rear sight, and into his eye which is different than that of anyone else’s eye? What exactly will happen to the wood and steel that will cause the relative positions of the front and rear sights and the bore to change such the bullet leaves the barrel differently than it would for another shooter?

    Nothing. And nothing.

    Despite the old shooter’s legend, it’s nothing.
     
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  15. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    I think we should separate the task of zeroing from rifle handling mechanics and the vagaries of anatomical differences between individuals.

    If someone doesn’t know how to zero their rifle they are likely new to shooting or don’t shoot very often and are looking for minute of pie plate.

    I’m showing them how to bore site on a 3” paster at 100 yards, how to check and adjust for parallax (if applicable) and make one adjustment on windage and one adjustment on elevation. 3 shots to zero and Bob’s your uncle.

    Learning how to drive the rifle for one hole groups would be a lesson for another day.
     
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  16. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I don’t know about the details but I recently hunted with two different guns that someone else sighted in and proceeded to kill two deer.

    I guess it depends on who is doing the sighting in and whether you trust them or not.
     
  17. Scout21

    Scout21 Member

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    I've had family members sight in my rifles many times with no issue. I think that it's important to remember that ultimately it's your rifle and it's your responsibility to ensure that it's properly zeroed. If you miss an animal/target due to it not being zeroed it's your fault, not the person's who you asked to sight it in for you.

    Now if you paid someone to do it, like a gunsmith, it would be a different story. I'd expect it to be as sighted in as reasonably possible while keeping in mind that everyone has a slightly different version of "sighted in" due to how our eyes work and how the rifle is held.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
  18. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    Reminds me of a story my uncle told me about a guy who bought a 470 nitro. Drank a pint of Jim beam went in his back yard shot the rifle once and quit drinking that day. Never had the pleasure of shooting a big bore. Not yet anyway.
     
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  19. wally

    wally Member

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    I sight in my wife's AR. She'd be mystified by it, has trouble understanding that she has to tweak the diopter after I've done it, but once I remind her, she does well shooting steel plates at 300 yards. It is well worth the effort to get my wife to come shooting with me.
     
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  20. BushMaster-15

    BushMaster-15 Member

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    I'd allow a shooter to sight MY Rifle or pistol in ,provided I VERIFIED POA POI at a specific yardage :) .

    NO fooling with MY DIALING TURRETS :cuss:
     
  21. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Why not?
     
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  22. army_eod

    army_eod Member

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    It is ballistic science.
     
  23. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I've helped friends sight in. When I say sight in I mean what looks to be appropriate for my eye. I always encourage the owner to fine tune it for their eye. If they don't want to do that then it's their call. I explain to them that I'm not the one using the rifle.
     
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  24. Picher

    Picher Member

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    In the "olden days", before scopes, it was unheard of for anyone to sight-in somebody else's rifle, probably because people took different sight pictures to align the target with two other sights. With the advent of scopes, the crosshair was the only point to line up with the target. Anyone could then sight-in equally well, provided they didn't flinch.

    Flinching is another problem that people have when shooting from a bench. It's a combination of factors, one being that they're leaning-into the rifle, so felt recoil is greater than when shooting offhand or sitting on a hunting stool. However, I know a few people who have shot when sitting on the ground or on a stool, with their back against a large TREE. The tree doesn't "give" any, so the shoulder gets really squished and it can be quite painful.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  25. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    And it does change. As a surveyor of many years I know this is true. A very long time ago surveyors used to manually measure angles with very expensive optics. The theodolites were calibrated using equipment specifically designed to maintain high precision. An untrained person without that equipment couldn't do it.

    Sighting two targets, no two people ever got the same value when measuring angles. Some were close but never the same. They just saw different things using the 32 x optics.

    These days robots measure the angles using sensors and lasers. Rifle optics are a lot like the optics surveyors used to use except they are very low end compared to the glass in a theodolite that costs 5K in 1980.

    That pretty much lays to rest the theory that trigger jerkers is the difference. There are no triggers on theodolites. Just tangent screws and optics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
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