Is it time to call Trail Boss dead?

[GeoDudeFlorida]

ADI stated in 2021 that Trail Boss was not going back into production until after 2022 because of some production issues. Well, 2023 is almost done and Thales has not put out a single new batch of Trail Boss. If it’s gone for good then recommendations are pointless (might as well tell people to go buy some Infallible) and if it does come back it’s not going to be anytime soon. It might even come back under a different name because a reformulation will invalidate the old data.
Is it time to accept the loss and move on?

 

[JohnB-40]

This is according to a post on the Aussie site "OZ GUN LOBBY" ....Who knows if it is true or not?

"I had a meeting with a couple of guys from Thales Mulwalla ( for work -not firearms related, they were not management level) on Friday. First question I asked was what is happening with Trailboss? I was told it would be made again, but the plant line they use for it has to be rebuilt and its still at least a couple of years off. Their new production line is dedicated to milspec powders and they cannot use it for Nitro based powders.
Shotgun powders are being made now so I guess pistol powders wont be far behind.
I may have some details wrong but bottom line is - Shotgun powder - in production, Trail Boss a couple of years off at least. It was an aside in a meeting completely unrelated". (Oct 2022)

 

[Charlie98]

I kind of wonder if they aren't trying to reformulate it... their last press release hinted at that. Because it's such a bulky powder, it might be kind of expensive to produce... but I'm just WAG'ing.

For right now, those of you who have some TB... I would get my magic marker out and stencil End of The Trail, Boss! on the label to remind you what you have is what you got.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

Is it time to accept the loss and move on?

Yes.
I have a half container left. I wish I would have bought more back in 2018.

 

[dredd]

ADI stated in 2021 that Trail Boss was not going back into production until after 2022 because of some production issues. Well, 2023 is almost done and Thales has not put out a single new batch of Trail Boss. If it’s gone for good then recommendations are pointless (might as well tell people to go buy some Infallible) and if it does come back it’s not going to be anytime soon. It might even come back under a different name because a reformulation will invalidate the old data.
Is it time to accept the loss and move on?

Thanks for posting.
I have been wanting to ask this for quite awhile, but I figured I'd get lectured since I have not researched it very much and may have missed something.

I have 3 x 2/lb Jugs and 3 x 9/oz Bottles on hand. Looks like I'd better make it last.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I kind of wonder if they aren't trying to reformulate it... their last press release hinted at that. Because it's such a bulky powder, it might be kind of expensive to produce... but I'm just WAG'ing.

For right now, those of you who have some TB... I would get my magic marker out and stencil End of The Trail, Boss! on the label to remind you what you have is what you got.

I was thinking about that, too. The fact that the current formula reacts very poorly to any kind of compression might be a reason, too. Again, WAG’ing but that (and the cost) is really the only knock on TB.

 

[GBExpat]

Sad news about Trailboss.
I have slightly less than 8# remaining and only use it for conservative .32-20 loads for my vintage .32WCF revolvers ... which I currently do not shoot much ... so I am good for another 15k± reloads.

The fact that the current formula reacts very poorly to any kind of compression might be a reason

To your knowledge was anyone ever able to get ADI to fess-up to and offer details about that Issue? I know that a LOT of us tried but failed.

 

[TEXASJD]

It or something really close to it will show up at some point I swapped all mine off to cowboy action shooter Because I was done playing with it in 308 subs. And he needed it

 

[SingleActionAndrew]

I have an unopened jar I bought at the start of covid when it happened to be one of the few things available at that particular week. I'm torn on using it. It's like getting 500 bullets that aren't made anymore like 45cal JSWC. Not worth refining a load when you'll be out by the time you get there. Collectible value probably higher than practical.

I wish VV would ramp production of tin star (when was it last available?). From cursory research I was under the impression this was a high brow version of Trail Boss.

I appreciate a nice smokey load

 

[Bigdog357]

After reading this I'm glad I have 10lbs in my stockpile. Should last me for several years. I use it in 38spl and 45ACP.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I’ve heard of some using Blackhorn 209 as a Trail Boss replacement. I can’t comment as I haven’t used it, but from what I’ve read it is a very low pressure powder similar to Black Powder and only mildly corrosive. It is said that it can be cleaned within a week of firing with Hoppes #9 with no ill effects. It is rather expensive though.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Sad news about Trailboss.
I have slightly less than 8# remaining and only use it for conservative .32-20 loads for my vintage .32WCF revolvers ... which I currently do not shoot much ... so I am good for another 15k± reloads.




To your knowledge was anyone ever able to get ADI to fess-up to and offer details about that Issue? I know that a LOT of us tried but failed.

No. Just speculation on my part.
ADI’s not in a talking mood.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

The expense of TB always kept me from trying it. I won't miss it if it goes away.

I'm betting something will come back, but not TB. Extruded powder is more expensive to make than ball. TB looks to me like an extruded powder that was sliced into donuts.
Also, several chemicals used in the making of powder have been regulated out of use in some countries, notably the EU. It may be impossible to make TB in the existing political climate.

So, out my vote in the "TB is dead" column.

 

[35 Whelen]

The expense of TB always kept me from trying it. I won't miss it if it goes away.

I'm betting something will come back, but not TB. Extruded powder is more expensive to make than ball. TB looks to me like an extruded powder that was sliced into donuts.
Also, several chemicals used in the making of powder have been regulated out of use in some countries, notably the EU. It may be impossible to make TB in the existing political climate.

So, out my vote in the "TB is dead" column.

TB to me was always an expensive solution looking for a problem, and a powder that could teach carelessness to new loaders.

35W

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

TB to me was always an expensive solution looking for a problem, and a powder that could teach carelessness to new loaders.

35W

I bought one 9-oz bottle when I first started reloading several years ago. I still have over half of it left. I could never find a real use for it (for what I wanted to do). I used it a few times just playing around with reduced loads in 38 special, but then I discovered Bullseye which is way more economical. Don’t get me wrong. It was handy just being able to pour in nearly a case full of powder and shoot without worrying about consequences, but it just wasn’t for me. For my purposes, I would rather see a powder company develop a true non-corrosive black powder substitute that achieves the same velocity at low pressure that BP does, that could be reduced to less than a case full if necessary.

 

[jmorris]

I still haven‘t called HS-7 dead yet and they quit making it in the ‘90’s.

I guess it depends if you are out of it, or not.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

Not everyone knows that Hodgdon produced a load data formula that allows this powder to be used in most cartridges for low pressure lead rounds. I printed it off and stuck it in one of my manuals. Basically you would figure out the volume in the case after the bullet was seated and multiply that by .7 (or something, don't quote me on that) and that was your starting charge.

I don't know of any other powder that can be used that way.

Since we started down this rabbit hole what else can we use to provide light to moderate pressures with good case fill? Say in a cartridge like 38 special or 45 colt?

 

[35 Whelen]

Not everyone knows that Hodgdon produced a load data formula that allows this powder to be used in most cartridges for low pressure lead rounds. I printed it off and stuck it in one of my manuals. Basically you would figure out the volume in the case after the bullet was seated and multiply that by .7 (or something, don't quote me on that) and that was your starting charge.

I don't know of any other powder that can be used that way.

Since we started down this rabbit hole what else can we use to provide light to moderate pressures with good case fill? Say in a cartridge like 38 special or 45 colt?

AL2400 or one of the 4227's come to mind.

35W

 

[kidneyboy]

I have about 3 pounds of TB I should trade off for something else. Used it for 45colt and 357, neither of which I reload for anymore.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

I found it in my files. Here it is.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

A while back I read of some using a case full of some fast rifle powder (I can’t remember what it was, but slower than 4227) to replicate black powder velocity and pressure in revolver loads. I looked, but I couldn’t find it today. Maybe someone else will know what it was.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

A while back I read of some using a case full of some fast rifle powder (I can’t remember what it was, but slower than 4227) to replicate black powder velocity and pressure in revolver loads. I looked, but I couldn’t find it today. Maybe someone else will know what it was.

That’s the niche Accurate 5744 tried to carve for itself. In case someone wants the short version of the 5744 story:

Accurate 5744 Powder: Versatility in a Bottle

Accurate 5744 Powder has earned its stripes taming big-bore beasts and making them viable options for lighter North American game.

gundigest.com

TLDR: anything you can do with Trail Boss you can do with AA5744; but you have to know what you’re doing first. The “nice” thing about TB is/was, you didn’t need to know what you were doing, just fill any case to within 5% of max and seat a bullet. You would get a bang, for sure. AA5744 needs more volume for the same job but it won’t get squirrely if you compress it a little.

 

[Charlie98]

That’s the niche Accurate 5744 tried to carve for itself. In case someone wants the short version of the 5744 story:

You beat me to it... AA5744 has handgun cartridge data for a lot of cartridges that surprise me. It wouldn't be the first powder I'd reach for in that role, but it's there.

I'm betting something will come back, but not TB. Extruded powder is more expensive to make than ball. TB looks to me like an extruded powder that was sliced into donuts.
Also, several chemicals used in the making of powder have been regulated out of use in some countries, notably the EU. It may be impossible to make TB in the existing political climate.

That's kind of what I was thinking... it's not necessarily how expensive it is to produce, it's the byproducts created by producing it.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You beat me to it... AA5744 has handgun cartridge data for a lot of cartridges that surprise me. It wouldn't be the first powder I'd reach for in that role, but it's there.




That's kind of what I was thinking... it's not necessarily how expensive it is to produce, it's the byproducts created by producing it.

I tried to like Accurate 5744 but I couldn’t. I never saw that it would do anything as well as IMR 4198 or IMR 4227 but it was always cheaper by a few bucks so I tried it. Not my bag but neither is Trail Boss.
I agree, it was never the first powder I restocked when it ran out. But I did always run out of it so…

 

[ballman6711]

I have a bit of TB left, bought a 1# (9oz) bottle to develop a light load for the 480 Ruger. I may have enough left to finish developing the load, but then I'll be out. I may just load the rest of it up and be done.

It doe's make some light shooting target loads in the big magnums, makes them enjoyable to shoot for more than just a few rounds.

chris