Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by brewer12345, Aug 8, 2018.
I thought you were joking. Turns out you weren't. Kinda neat but not for me.
This question made me think a timewarp back to the late 60's or early 70's had occurred ....
...everyone has an opinion. As for reliability, modern JSP and JHP, in modern military firearms are just as durable and functions just as well as FMJ.
"I am driven to wonder if jhp bullets are overkill for self defense."
I sure as hell won’t take the chance on underkill.....
I want the biggest hole for caliber that I can put in someone trying to do me harm.
Not that I'm an expert but when I carry a 1911 it's loaded with Gold Dots. They are very accurate in my 1911.
Yep, kind of puts the idea of using a .45ACP FMJFN--that is likely to penetrate 30 inches or more--to rest for me, too. Of course, it is hard to go wrong with the HST in any caliber.
Who currently produces a 230gr FMJ-FN?
I'd worry more about if your pistol can handle the HPs. The 1911 was primarily designed with ball ammo in mind.
In fact, JMB built the pistol around the ammo. You may want to run a few boxes of that hot-poo HP ammo thru
your gun, before taking any chances.
JHP, just for combating over penetration is important.
I don't want to hurt anyone that I'm not trying to stop. Keep the bullets in the bad guy, only.
I have a 12 ga with 2 #4 shot then 00 next. I think the #4 will do and hope I never have to find out. What sits next to me by my bed is .45 ACP and I'm accurate with it. Both my .45s carry Liberty Civil Defense JHPs. Expensive and I hope I never have to use it in self defense. I'm confident it will stop a threat.
If some creep is trying to kill you there is no such thing as "overkill".
Compared to a .30-06 and a 12 ga. buckshot load they are.
Yeah, its the lack of hydostatic shock. Even the big magnum revolvers dont always provide this either - some calibers can. You mean my 45 acp is not as powerful as a 458 lott?
That’s very true. I’d go further and say you get the fight you get, so it makes sense to be as prepared as you can be.
I never heard of a dying man regretting he overkilled his opponent.
Don't forget that the Jhp's are just plain made better. Way more reliable. The nickle chrome plating on some of my Win black box, and Speer ammo is so slick it feels oiled.
Since I shoot my carry ammo every month, my reload mags are Fmj to save cost. I don't think .45 fmj is prone to overpen. That's .40 and .357sigs problem. Maybe 9mm +p+, if your luck is bad.
Well, it's already been deemed "reasonable" to use a 12GA double barrel shotgun in self defense even by some of the worst "gun control" proponents on or with the far-left. A 12GA slug might only be .71" di. but it's soft lead and would likely expand. I've seen slugs go clean through gel blocks, so you should be more than alright with ye olde .45ACP double-tap. Don't shoot 'em if they gave up or stopped attacking, because that'd be murder. Personally I'd go with a light, +P fragmenting HP. Less chance of over-penetration, an apparent happy medium between pain compliance and lethality, and shotgun-like affect in the intended target without spread outside the target. Then again, I'm a city guy, my apartment has thin walls and the neighbors, their kids and dog are right next door. I feel the need to walk a fine line, even though my State laws allow for some immunity from "collateral damage" in defense of self or another. Depends on your situation.
No armed robber, terrorist or generic nutcase EVER said to him or herself, "I'd better carry FMJs because I'm worried about 'overkill'..."
The idea that I would or should care more about the welfare of somebody willing to slaughter me and other people than I care about my own is more alien to me than anything any conceivable extra-terrestrial could possibly come up with.
My Commander eats 230 gr SXT +P like candy.
Shoots small groups too.
I don't want highly frangible, in case I gotta try to push em through some stuff to get to the bad guy (like corner of wall). Maybe auto glass or door.
Heightened risk at our place due to the occupation of a family member. Assume the worst.
Hopefully, you will only have pressed the trigger because you believe someone's life would be in serious jeopardy if you didn't. While I have NO experience in such matters, I believe that under those circumstances, one cannot stop the threat quickly enough or certainly enough to satisfy. So, 'overkill' is meaningless, and any steps you can take to ensure the bullet stops in the target is just being a responsible citizen. The JHP is the best available solution to these problems and responsibilities, IMO.
My training at Sig Academy strenuously emphasized, however, that we never shoot to kill. We shoot to stop the threat, 'and this is how we do that'. If two to the upper torso happens to result in the demise of the threat, that wasn't the objective.
Most appropriate ways to stop a deadly force threat involve a relatively good chance of causing the immediate or near-term death of that threat.
If the threat doesn't like that, he or she ought to reconsider BEING a threat.
I thought my .357 was s good SD weapon. After I took it into the deer woods six or eight times, and used it on 120lb to 160lb animals...... I bought a .45.
Bigger holes are better.
I like jhp for everything but paper.
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