Is MCTD the problem, or poor technique?

[Naphtali]

I just acquired a Ruger SP101. I attempted to strip it to get the gunk off and to affix my preferred lubricant. Regardless what I do or what I use as helper, I cannot depress the spring-loaded lock work disassembly pin. With a maximum effort using flat tip screwdriver, I think I detect the pin moving almost imperceptibly. Yes, I did put a tiny amount of Kroil on the cylindrical hole that contains pin and spring.

I have MCTD, a "full-featured" autoimmune illness, whose symptoms include rheumatoid arthritis - among a constellation of others. I cannot confirm whether the problem is my hands, or is it inaccurate disassembly? I haven't disassembled a Ruger double action revolver in I-can-remember-when years. About the only way I can think of to get the revolver field stripped is to drive to Missoula (80+ miles each way) and have a gunsmith do the job.

This should solve the problem this time. But what about the second time?

 

[boom boom]

Are you trying to take down the trigger assembly, take out the hammer pin, or simply to take down the revolver into subassemblies to clean?

To remove the hammer pin, you have to take the grips off and use a takedown pin inserted into a hole at the bottom of the trigger struct (usually inside the factory grips and often lost on used guns) to capture the main spring under tension for removal (an appropriate diameter finishing nail or a punch also works). In the Gunblast picture below, you can see the brassy looking pin inserted into the hole on the hammer strut with the mainspring still captured at the top middle of the picture. See the manual below for the exact procedures.

Here is a picture of the SP 101 field stripped http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger_SP101/MVC-014F.jpg and a copy of the manual in pdf https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/sp101.pdf

It is generally not recommended to take down the trigger subassembly as it is a bear to get apart and put back. Done it once on a GP100 but not willing to do so again unless absolutely necessary for broken parts or springs. They are a whole different animal than working on S&W revolvers.

If you are trying to lighten trigger pull, it is generally easier and more effective to reduce spring strength on Ruger revolvers, a few use shims on either side of the hammer/and or polishing the sides of the hammer as well. Unless there are obvious burrs or other issues on the trigger lockwork mating surfaces, usually best to leave these alone.

To remove crud, you can put the subassemblies into an ultrasonic cleaner tank--even the whole revolver if needed or soak it in something like D-solve from Brownells https://www.brownells.com/gun-clean...lvents/d-solve-gunsmith-cleaner-prod1068.aspx Spray cleaners such as Breakfree's Powder Blast also can flush out garbage or even the non-toxic brake cleaner aerosols.

I understand about autoimmune arthritic joint conditions because I also have it which makes it difficult to work on firearms at times. However, you do what you can and work out fixes around other problems.

 

[Naphtali]

. . . It is generally not recommended to take down the trigger subassembly as it is a bear to get apart and put back. Done it once on a GP100 but not willing to do so again unless absolutely necessary for broken parts or springs. They are a whole different animal than working on S&W revolvers. . . .

This is where I need an answer. Since the attorney-protected Owner's Manual shows and describes how to remove lock work assembly affixed to trigger guard, this is a routine procedure - especially for a first-time clean and lubricate.

So I must find a way that works.

 

[boom boom]

Naphtali,
I think that we are talking past each other--I am talking about the total stripping and disassembly of the trigger group sub assembly is generally not recommended--there are a lot of pins, springs, and it requires basically three hands to put back into order. These pins are in there tight and you need a padded vise, brass starter pins, Kroil, etc. and the proper hammers to break these loose. I also can't remember whether some have to be driven out in one direction only (taper pins) or not.

You pretty much have to do the whole field stripping process on the Ruger DA revolvers in order to remove the lockwork assembly and cannot just remove a sideplate like a S&W to access it. But it is pretty quick. The trigger subassembly swings downward and out after you have removed the other subassemblies holding it in and pressing in on a retaining locking pin at the back through the frame with a screwdriver or thin punch.

These are a few websites and videos that might be useful to instruct you on a breakdown.

This is one person's a multistep breakdown with pictures on total disassembly to do a trigger job on an SP101. http://www.sp101trigger.com/index.html At the top, he breaks down each step with pictures and illustrations.

Here is a Youtube video
This is one on improving the trigger pull using shims and a new spring
There are quite a few of these.

As usual, your mileage and valuing of these sources may vary.

Patrick Sweeney also covers these in his Gunsmithing Pistols and Revolvers books and I think Grant Cunningham has also dealt with these in his blog.

 

[Mizar]

On new Rugers that pin can be quite stubborn to remove - you can use a flat faced punch and a small hammer to start it. Secure the grip frame in a vice and use light, repeated strokes. After the first removal it will be a lot easier to do it for future disassembles. If you don't have a vise, you can rest the barrel on a firm wooden surface, but it's a lot harder to hold the revolver, the punch, and stroke the hammer at the same time with only two hands.

 

[Naphtali]

Okay. Hammer, flat faced punch, something with which to give a firm hit or two, and another person to substitute for a vise. Got it.

"If at first you don't succeed, try the outfield." Babe Herman (Daffy Dodger first baseman/outfielder)

 

[Jim K]

I strongly suggest the punch be brass or aluminum so as not to peen the latch.

Jim

 

[Varminterror]

I've been doing service and action jobs on Ruger Revolvers for almost 20yrs, other than initial disassembly, nothing about them should be so difficult. None of the pins in the fire control group are supposed to be tight, and other than making sure to keep the trigger pressed forward in the assembly during reinstallation (which prevents the pawl and transfer bar from falling free), there are no tricks and no fuss about removing, disassembling, and reinstalling the fire control group.

Since this is new for you, it is likely wise to discuss with your gunsmith in Missoula your issue, and ask them to rectify it for you. He could do a simple clean and lubricate service job, or he can do what I call a "user friendliness enhancement" job. This often entails polishing the take down latch and bore and hand fitting the trigger guard to the frame to reduce the interference fit so many of them leave with from Ruger mother ship. You could request an action job at the same time, to enhance the feel and function of the action, but ONLY if said smith is so qualified and experienced. Having this "user friendliness" work done will make the revolver MUCH easier to take down next time, which should be attainable with only slightly more pressure than the trigger pull (remember, that takedown latch is pressing on the opposite end of the same spring as the trigger), minus a little leverage - in other words, if you can pull the trigger with one finger, you dang well should be able to push the takedown latch with one HAND. Yours is stuck because of physical interference - a wedge - creating pressure on the latch pin. If it's so tight it's not moving when pressed with a screwdriver, you have problems in the machining tolerance, and need to have it fixed/fitted.

 

[Mizar]

I believe that OP's problem comes from the rough machining that Ruger leaves on the internal parts. Under pressure those tiny burrs left on the trigger take down latch and the frame can lock the first pretty solid to the frame, but with the first removal those burrs would burnish themselves and make the next disassembles much more easier. Don't forget that the OP has arthritis, so he may not be capable to push real hard on that pin - that is why I suggested to use a punch and a hammer, emphasizing on LIGHT strikes, only to brake the initial bond, nothing more.

 

[Varminterror]

I believe that OP's problem comes from the rough machining that Ruger leaves on the internal parts. Under pressure those tiny burrs left on the trigger take down latch and the frame can lock the first pretty solid to the frame

Covered that...

Since this is new for you, it is likely wise to discuss with your gunsmith in Missoula your issue, and ask them to rectify it for you. [...] [H]e can do what I call a "user friendliness enhancement" job. This often entails polishing the take down latch and bore

 

[LoneGoose]

My SP-101 had those burrs and would not come apart. I finally put a strong piece of rod through that hole in the grip frame and tapped it with a hammer until it cleared its latch. I then used several grits of sandpaper to clean up all of the affected parts and make them smooth. Shouldn't have to do that kind of work, and I'd bet that Ruger would do it if you sent the gun back. Anyway, I can now pull that trigger group with a simple punch. Good luck.

P.S. - I heard somewhere that you can reduce a Ruger's trigger pull weight by detaching one leg of the trigger return spring. Yes? No? Anyone?

 

[Varminterror]

My SP-101 had those burrs and would not come apart. I finally put a strong piece of rod through that hole in the grip frame and tapped it with a hammer until it cleared its latch. I then used several grits of sandpaper to clean up all of the affected parts and make them smooth. Shouldn't have to do that kind of work, and I'd bet that Ruger would do it if you sent the gun back. Anyway, I can now pull that trigger group with a simple punch. Good luck.

Burnishing/polishing the latch and bore is simple enough, I wouldn't spend time sending it back to Ruger. Some folks have to call AAA to change a flat tire though, so I'm glad Ruger does offer their satisfaction promise.

P.S. - I heard somewhere that you can reduce a Ruger's trigger pull weight by detaching one leg of the trigger return spring. Yes? No? Anyone?

You're confusing two different models. The SP101 has a single coil spring for the trigger reset. The "one leg" poor man's trigger job on Ruger revolvers is for their single action revolvers - Vaquero, New Vaquero, Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk. Not applicable for the double action lines. Yes, lifting one leg of the SINGLE action trigger return spring from the spring stay pin will reduce your trigger pull. It's not the proper way to accomplish the goal, and many guys will poo-poo it as a bad idea, but frankly, it works fine. My oldest-to-me SBH has had the right leg off of the stay for 20yrs, and over 10,000rnds, with no ill effects. The rest of my fleet of Ruger single actions have gotten reduced power springs, so I do prefer the replacement springs - they're too cheap to really complain over.

 

[LoneGoose]

Varminterror, by golly you're right. It's my single-actions that do that. I stand corrected. I must have a slow leak somewhere.