Is my AR-15 rifle better then your's ?

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The funny thing about "mil-specs" is they tend to lock in antiquated technologies. I wouldn't think for a second that just because the military uses it, that it is the latest and greatest out there, it usually isn't. In fact, there is a big push in the acquisition realm right now to use industry standards such ANSI, SAE, and the like vs. traditional military specifications.

For example, take the fail zero bolt carrier in my AR. The EXO coating may not be "mil-spec" but it performs better the original coating. Some pretty extensive live fire tests by DOE validate this.
 
HKGuns those are really beautiful rifles, but I would be scared to death to toss that in my pick up take it out on my buddies property, lean it against an old fence post or on some rocks while I ate lunch and we are varmint hunting. I think your AR15 rifles are better that most I've seen, but I don't think they will work for me. They sure are pretty.
 
HKGuns those are really beautiful rifles, but I would be scared to death to toss that in my pick up take it out on my buddies property, lean it against an old fence post or on some rocks while I ate lunch and we are varmint hunting. I think your AR15 rifles are better that most I've seen, but I don't think they will work for me. They sure are pretty.

Thanks, I don't throw them in a truck either! :) I take very good care of them and I do shoot them often. I own no safe queens.

Here is a 5 shot group from the top rifle, shooting my hand loads.

p347088754-5.jpg
 
Nice! Like I said all I have are iron sights and the best I can do is about 1" at 75 yards.
 
Nice 5 shot target - but, as I alluded, it's not milspec. . . .:evil:

What started the "milspec" focus was an expansion of sales on parts and completed guns using "non-milspec" standards. The average buyer couldn't tell one part from another, so various parties stepped up to inform the public just how important the differences were.

One concern is milspec vs commercial buffer tubes. That alone underscores how the aftermarket can go "wrong" with changing the dimensions, materials, and the very important "how" one is made.

No tests seem to exist to demonstrate which is more reliable or accurate. It's merely assumed by their differences that the military grade buffer tube must be superior because it's more likely to have a higher material yield point and more consistent dimensions.

If you aren't going to fall on it, buttstroke an adversary, or team lift another soldier in full field gear over a wall or into a third world window, then that incremental difference means nothing. And there's the flip side of the coin - buffer tubes that aren't milspec are the backbone of AR pistol builds, they are usually thicker with more material. No clue if they are actually stronger than the straightwalled thin GI tubes.

As for the EXO coating, the military DID adopt a dry lubricant process they coat the interior of issue uppers. They do respond to what is available on the market. They didn't adopt the EXO, tho, did they? Why not?

Goes back to cost vs benefits. If you are required to clean and lube your AR daily in combat, even more if it gets coated with the environment, again, then why bother? The coatings purpose is to shed dust, debris, and gas residue because you DON'T clean it. And yet the "mispec" on maintenance already covers that. You clean it more regularly than a 3Gun competitor. You have to.

If you aren't going to neglect your gun and force the improved coatings to do their job, then why bother spending money on it? The mean rounds between failure with milspec maintenance is acceptable.

It's the public responding to the hype of an improved product that must have highly superior reliability against the M16's legendary fast buildup of gas residue that sells the extra bling coatings.

In reality, the M16 is only incrementally dirtier than any other self loading rifle after 300 rounds - at which point the soldier is required to clean and lube it. Long before it's demonstrated MRBF is reached.

Shoot a HK91, Garand, M1A, AK47, whatever your favorite self loading action is, then tear it down to the gas cylinder rings and clean it. There's plenty of pics online to show they can each get decidedly nasty. Foreign ammo tends to have even more residue than US.

Why does the M16 get so much blame? Well, if you look into the causes, which the military has been doing for decades, it's based on three things - ammo, magazines, and user error. The Army fixed the first, they make their own ammo, and they don't make plinker. It's full power hot NATO spec rounds all the way. Second, mags. The M16 doesn't share the robust magazine design that others do, like the AK. Different design philosophy - the AK is issued in countries that give their soldiers three for the duration of their enlistment, the US issues magazines somewhat like candy. What they initially intended was to shoot them and then discard them on the battlefield to issue new, fully loaded magazines. It turned out that wasn't a sustainable logistic decision, and until we get away from the flimsy design, we will suffer certain downsides. It forced us to reacquire new mags over and over, face that their is a problem, adopt new technology like polymer, and accept that other cartridges like the 6.8 couldn't without enlarging the mag well.

So - why haven't we done that, milspec? Well, there are other irons in the fire, like LSAT, which sidestep the entire issue.

Lastly, of course, there is user error. All to many think the AR15 is capable of continuous full auto fire, when that was never intended. What the design team was trying to do was get more bullets in the air, because that would make more hits beyond the normal effective range of 150m. It was found that a lot of hits on the enemy were created by bullets never intentionally discharged at them specifically. They were hit by moving into that path or were standing behind someone else as an unintended back stop. Regardless, shoot more bullets, you get more hits.

That doesn't translate into much the average civilian shooter can use, tho, and it even runs contrary to the intent of our peace oriented safety and sportsmanship rules. So it means that those who purchase a weapon with even higher capabilities than milspec are either planning to use it for an intense combat scenario above and beyond the average soldiers experience, or, they just want to have something they can brag is better.

My money - the latter. We as humans, and more specifically, males, are always trying to one up the other guy to establish our superior ranking in society. In that regard, Noveske trumps Colt trumps S&W trumps Remington in the AR wars. And the Remington is milspec issue, even they are building to contract.

Like that means anything to the LWRC six8 owners who are in a higher class altogether. Another "milspec" issue AR, just to a foreign country. ;)
 
Along with that, "Mil-Spec" isn't always better for my purposes.
Mil-Spec is either rifle length gas system or carbine length. The midlength gas system allows a rifle with a 16" barrel to operate reliably without putting as much stress on moving parts. That should mean less chance of breakage and longer life. I think it's an improvement, but it is not mil-spec.

But I do like the standard as a guide. If a company is building to mil-spec or as close as they can get to it, then at least they're putting in the effort to build consistent rifles. In the AR world especially, it's good to do a little research before you buy. At this point, there is no need to buy a "cheap" rifle from brand X when you could have a very good rifle built from mil-spec parts from brand Y for $50 more. It behooves buyers to know what they're buying so they don't buy a stock DPMS carbine at the local gun store for $1,100 when they could have had Colt for the same money.
 
If I read anything in the OP correctly, the question I read is "If two rifles are 'mil spec' but differ in manufacturer, is one better than the other?" To that I say yes, there are good and bad manufacturers out there. If mil spec guaranteed everything the failure rate would be zero.

If I completely misread the OP...well it wouldn't be a first. If the question is "are there better than mil spec parts out there?" the answer is yes. No one needed a Tennifer barrel before Glock introduced theirs but hey, our military doesn't use Glocks.
 
I know three AR fans two are colts and the third is bushmaster . they are all nice the bushmaster is light by comparison .. all three want my M1A the heaviest of them all . how would you say the better rifle is this or that To carry on a long hike the bushmaster . to shoot 600 yards the M1A price the colts win .
 
Its not the gun, it's the Operator.

Always has been, always will be.
 
Sounds so simple but if it were true we would just all shoot $20 red riders.
 
I have been told that my old Bushmaster made by Windham is junk and I should replace it with an all mill spec by DD, or Colt, or any of the other high dollar companies, Well it has a few thousand rounds through it, It has no FTF, or FTE issues, I don't run 3000 rnds through it in a weekend, But my point is Ive been on the range and seen a lot of guys have issues with there high dollar Ar's that I don't. Maybe they run theirs harder or don't clean theirs like I do mine, But I hit what I aim at and when I pull the trigger it goes bang, So some times I think its hype, Take care of your weapon, clean it, shoot it and enjoy it. Its a machine they all need maintenance and they all break if not cared for.
 
No, we're talking about firearms not bb guns for children.

So some of you think buying a bunch of really expensive arms will out-class a determined opponent with a govt. issue weapon?
 
Hang all the junk you want on a milspec M-4 it won't outshoot a rifle or carbine with a free floated barrel.

Unless you pay a $200 tax to own an SBR, few rifles have an actual mil spec 14.5 inch M-4 barrel.

That M203 step in the barrel is useless , but 'spec'.

Mil spec barrels have been 1:12, 1:9 and 1:7 twist, depends on the era of the build and carbine/rifle.


As for the internal parts?

1. The MPI testing and peening of the bolt is important, the staking of the key is a vital part of building a bolt carrier.

2. Military triggers are not target triggers.

3. Right buffer for your build. The wrong buffer can beat up your gun. Run rifle buffers in rifles, carbine buffers in carbines.

4. Buffer tubes do come in two diameters. One is milspec, one is 'commercial.' It might look the same but they are not. External and internal dimensions vary, and that effects putting aftermarket stocks and such on.

Exterior stuff like grips and stocks are an end user preference. Once you start customizing it's technically OUT of mil-spec.
 
No, we're talking about firearms not bb guns for children.

So some of you think buying a bunch of really expensive arms will out-class a determined opponent with a basic, govt. issue weapon?

Hasn't worked so far in our last 60 years...
 
So some of you think buying a bunch of really expensive arms will out-class a determined opponent with a basic, govt. issue weapon?

Hasn't worked so far in our last 60 years...
What are you talking about? No one said that.
 
Is my AR-15 rifle better then your's ?

Yes it is, why because it is your's. If it was mine, then they would be the same and still better than someone's else. Now if you did not have an AR-15 then no mine would be better than none at all. So the question should be if having an AR-15 better than not having a AR-15. Again the answer is YES, it is better.

I hope this answers your question about is your's better than having someone's other than your's. I still think the answer would be YES, it is better than not having one.

Jim
 
the question I read is "If two rifles are 'mil spec' but differ in manufacturer, is one better than the other?" To that I say yes, there are good and bad manufacturers out there. If mil spec guaranteed everything the failure rate would be zero.

it would be interesting to see the testing/failure rates of colt vs FN compared for the actual mil rifles.

my guess is they are pretty dang close.
 
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