Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is my logic flawed?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by wild billz, Mar 30, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wild billz

    wild billz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    York, PA
    I’m in the market for a new .22, as seen by some of my previous posts. By the way I believe I am settled on the CZ 452, probably the trainer version. Here is my logic: I want a decent rifle, thus the CZ, it has adjustable sights, and trigger, nice iron sights, and still can be scoped. My range I shoot at only goes out to 100 yards. I shoot mainly at 50 yards right now. I don’t hunt.

    Anyhow my brother in law and best friend both say get a .17M2, better ballistics and more range than a .22. I agree, but it’s a way more expensive caliber. Again I don’t hunt, and I won’t be shooting out to moire than 100 yards. If I did hunt with the .22, it would be fine for anything that I would shoot and at the distance I am likely to shoot at. I don’t live out on a prairie.

    My brother in law says get an AR15 and a converter so it can shoot .22, wouldn’t you rather have an AR? I say yes, I’d like an AR, but why get a converter for it to shoot .22, buy the .22, and then get an AR for when you want an AR. Then I have 2 dedicated platforms instead of changing one thing into another, and for probably the same price.

    Am I missing some virtue about the .17 or an AR? Other rifles to research comparable to the CZ?
     
  2. mbs357

    mbs357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,621
    Location:
    Vienna, VA
    .17s are great and accurate little rifles.
    I'm with you on not getting the AR with conversion, doesn't make sense.
    Two rifles are better than one.
    I'm afraid, however, that I can't recommend a .17 rifle, hopefully someone else will chime in (and I'm sure someone will =D).
     
  3. rockstar.esq

    rockstar.esq Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,475
    I'd have to say that the adapter for the AR is not such a great idea for someone looking for great precision. It would seem to me that the twist rate of the barrel will favor the heavier projectiles of the .223 thus leaving you with an inaccurate expensive rifle. As to the .17 question. I have to say that for most of us, shooting a .22Lr at 100yds represents a significant challenge. The .22LR will never cease to exist. I doubt the .17's future is so certain. When I hear comparisons about the .17/.22 I think of the entire Weatherby line of cartridges. Sure they have more velocity than other cartridges, sure they work great on game. BUT they cost way more and when you consider the rare instance where you'd truly notice the difference:
    1.You're probably shooting from too far away
    2.Shooting with crazy cross wind
    3.If you had practiced more with cheaper ammo, you could still make the shot with a more common caliber.

    I'd suggest that you get a .22LR
     
  4. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    4,981
    You sound like you already have your choice made; go with what you'll be happiest with. After all, it's YOUR rifle!
     
  5. wild billz

    wild billz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    York, PA
    I do believe, for my purposes and intents, the .22lr is great. I’m just presenting my arguments to another crowd since I was presented with differing views and they thought my choice was anemic, and was curious if there were greater virtues to the other rifle platform or caliber that I was not considering.
     
  6. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    .22LR MATCHES are shot at 50 yards. I'm talking about accuracy matches with dime-sized scoring rings and 36X scopes. 1/4 MOA rifles MINIMUM to be truly competitive, with factory ammo. I've tried it, and I've seen it done. .22LR is a pretty amazing round. It's used in both the Summer and Winter Olympics, too.

    There is NO REASON to abandon the .22LR round for your purposes. If the .17M2 comes down to anywhere near the price of .22LR, then yes, it's a great round. But it's 5 times as expensive as good .22LR ammo, and approaching 10 times as expensive as perfectly-adequate bulk .22LR ammo. And it burns barrels a lot faster due to much higher velocity. You'll probably be 6 feet under before you wear out a barrel with standard velocity .22LR ammo and a bolt gun.

    A tip: For 2006, Savage started putting the Accu-trigger on their rimfire rifles. They're still cheap and very accurate. You can get BOTH a .22 and a .17M2 for the price of a CZ, though the CZ sure is pretty and a damn good gun.
     
  7. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    BTW an AR is a versatile platform with a caveat.

    Remember the old fairy tale, "Soup from a Stone?" An AR lower can be fitted with any number of upper halves. But each upper half costs as much as most production rifles.:uhoh:
     
  8. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,777
    Location:
    Transient
    wild- nope, your logic is fine. start w/ your 22 lr, and get an ar-15 later.

    btw, i do hunt, and i do live on the prairie, and i have yet to have any trouble w/ rabbits, cats, and skunks to 125 yards or so...
     
  9. wild billz

    wild billz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    York, PA
    thanks all

    thanks dakotasin, so more of their arguments fall through, a .22lr is fine for hunting too

    what a great little cartridge!

    Now to save the money to get a nice rifle!
     
  10. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    BTW, if you want an AR, might as well get it in 5.56/.223. Good American-made milsurp ammo is only slightly more expensive than .17M2 and no more than .17HMR, if you look around.
     
  11. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    18,374
    Location:
    Deep in the Ozarks
    Your choices are correct.

    First of all, a CZ will cost less than a conversion kit for an AR. And it will be a more satisfactory rifle in many ways.

    Secondly, between the .22 LR and the .17HM2, the .22 is the best choice. If you want a more powerful (and expensive) rimfire round, go to the .17 HMR.
     
  12. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    13,232
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    And the holes are bigger and easier to see. JT
     
  13. Henry455

    Henry455 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Remember, 22lr bullet and 223 bullet are NOT the same diameter. AR's with the 22 conversion do shoot OK but are NOT noted for their accuracy. That why they make dedicated 22lr uppers for AR's.
     
  14. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    18,374
    Location:
    Deep in the Ozarks
    I would not recommend a conversion kit for an AR -- a .22 LR upper is the only way to go.
     
  15. hksw

    hksw Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,157
    Location:
    OH
    I like your logic.
     
  16. wild billz

    wild billz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    York, PA
    hksw, thanks, good to know I'm not nuts, or am I? The painful part of all of this is that my funds won't allow me to satiate my desires immediately.
     
  17. GeoW

    GeoW Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Sandfly, GA
    The CZ452 trainer is an excellent choice and a darned fine rifle. That's why I bought one. Ranks up there with the $$$ big name rifles for a fraction of the price. If you ain't got nothin else, you might as well have a .22.:)
    GeoW
     
  18. dm1333

    dm1333 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    971
    Go with the .22. I own a TC Classic .22lr and it is very accurate, even with Federal bulk ammo. You couldn't pay me to trade it in for something in .17.
     
  19. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,502
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    go with a .22.

    I personally see no need for the .17 calibers. Sure they are nice, but there is no actual need.

    Within a hundred yards the .22 can do what the .17's can. What the LR cant do the Mag can do. Past that the .22hornet can do everything just as well or better as the 17's. Also the 17's are rediculesly expensive for such a small round IMO. Also being so small they are very at the mercy of cross wind even more so then the .22lr.

    Get the .22, and you can have a days worth of fun very cheaply. For a little under thirty bucks ((not includding gas or the paper to print out my targets on the printer)) I can buy a day at the range and 1100 rounds of ammo. 10 for the range and 8.95 a box for rem or federal wally world bulk packs of 550 rounds. How much would it cost you to buy 1100 rounds of any of the 17's?

    Agian they are nice and here to stay but I would go with a .22 anytime and to me the 17's stay in the land of novilty when I have some money to play with for something new I'd like to play with....or when I want to buy an air gun.

    As for the AR....why the hell would you do that? Sounds like tactiCOOL thinking to me. One, you aren't going to get as much accuracy. Two, you are going to spend a heck of a lot more for the AR then a good .22lr rifle.
     
  20. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    8,374
    Location:
    Texas, baby!
    22's. get 50 rounds for a buck. nuf sed. then if you want to, get other stuff. if you were a hunter, i would say that the 17m2 maybe te best ever , at the small furries and featheries, out to 100 yds ever made. but since you dont hunt , the 22 is the way to go.
     
  21. lycanthrope

    lycanthrope Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,228
    Location:
    PA
    CZ 452 trainer.......$209 from Whittaker guns

    AR15 Kit gun.........$515 (Stag lower from Eagle Firearms and kit from Model 1)



    I have both...but my 452 is a Lux........

    NO REGRETS!
     
  22. dm1333

    dm1333 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    971
    Look at a TC Classic or Benchmark if you are interested in a semi auto. I'm a lefty so an auto was a good choice for me. I'm not sure that .17 is all that great for hunting, I've read a few articles onl line and in magazines where the tiny .17s just bounced off a varmint at longer ranges(of course, I tend to distrust anything new). I was able to hit a soda bottle at about 120 yards with my Classic, more than once, using Federal bulk ammo. I've also hit clay pigeons further out than that.
     
  23. MagnumCaliber357

    MagnumCaliber357 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    305
    this got me to thinking, dangerouse activity for me :neener:

    Would anyone else be interested in an AR in .17HMR :evil:

    I know i would
     
  24. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,502
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    mag...

    no....

    dear god no...

    that is just disturbing...
     
  25. wild billz

    wild billz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    York, PA
    Thanks for all, you reinforce my train of thought. I am very interested in the CZ Trainer. I was leaning towards a semi auto, but when I get frustrated or bored I waste ammo by rattling them off. I am out to increase my precision and discipline, and constancy, so a bolt gun is for me.

    I heard that Whittaker’s has them for $209. I asked at one of my local shops and they said $269 for a CZ Trainer. They charge about 50 bucks to do a transfer anyhow, so add shipping on there and it can be even more. I’ll have to ask if they can do better, or go to another shop. I can probably do a trade to get the price down, but I’d prefer to get a low price then sweeten the deal with a trade. I know Wal-Mart can order one for me for $221.

    I went to the gun show this weekend looking for one, and the only CZ they had was a .17 varmint. Getting one may not be as easy as I hoped.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page