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Is one-hand shooting a legitimate stance?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by monotonous_iterancy, Jun 4, 2013.

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  1. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Time perspective of the young really amuses me. Up until the late 1960's a handgun was shot with one hand except for women and any man who shot 2 handed was under suspicion of being less than manly. You won't see pictures of the great pistol shooters like Skeeter Skelton, Jeff Cooper and others of those days using a 2 handed hold.

    About that time I read an article by a respected shooter that proposed using 2 hands to shoot as he said the targets proved it increased scores. As it was slowly adopted in the 70's by police departments, driven by competition shooters using 2 hands in new games and matches sponsored by new organizations like IPSC founded in 1978. Two handed handgun shooting is now probably the predominately common way a handgun is shot.

    I know several people who prefer to shoot with a one handed hold, many are much better with one hand than I am with two. I shoot in a Bullseye league and find no difficulty shooting one handed accurately. Two handed hold offers a bit quicker recovery under recoil.

    The old man we knew as "Coach" who had a shooting box full of medals won over the years would remark that a pistol is called a "hand" gun, not a "hands" gun when asked about using a 2 handed hold.
     
  2. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Everybody should be able to shoot with one hand. Both hands are preferable, but there are circumstances where you don't have both available. At very close ranges, one-handed is faster.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I come from a long time ago NRA Bullseye competition & hunting background.

    If you touched a gun with both hands while shooting a NRA Bullseye match, it was an automatic disqualification right there.

    Now?
    I still like the challenge of shooting with one hand in the old NRA Bullseye target stance.

    It separates the men from the boy handgun shooters right quickly!

    And in the off chance SD is involved?
    You will often need your other hand to fiend off an attacker while going for your gun with the other hand.

    Two-hand shooting is the way to win gun-games nowadays.

    But it may not win your gunfight at green teeth & bad breath range in a dark street if you can't shoot with either hand.

    rc
     
  4. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    US Navy M9 qualification requires strong-hand only and weak-hand only rounds. I'm glad it does.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Wow. You must be one HECK of a talented shot!

    ... Either that or you're not challenging yourself with a timer.
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Yeah! What he said! It wasn't until some nameless jerk developed the "Modern Technique" that pansies started shooting with two hands ...uh... oh, wait... :uhoh:



    :D

    4e1e161cf6040ac1d18863.L._V168038865_SX200_.jpg

    51z7k%2BdzGCL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

    cooper6924.jpg

    Yup ... all those guys is less than manly, you can tell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  7. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    You forgot "Lipless Larry" and "Earless Ernie" Gotta be careful what you hold those targets with. :uhoh:
     
  8. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    Actually it doesn't. Jack Weaver, who developed the stance, said a few years ago he was a bit shocked when he heard the "push /pull" concept explained to him at a seminar where a speaker was discussing modern handgun shooting and the technique named after him. Weaver said he never came up with any such push/pull idea.

    Weaver explained he just took a two hand hold for better stability and raised the gun up to where he could see the sights. He took a slight boxer stance and bent his knees for balance. That's it. No push/pull. No isometric tension. No particular stance except that it was balanced. No concept of it being a "stance" as in martial arts, that silliness came later. Simple.

    You can see some of that interview here...

    http://wn.com/the_real_weaver_shooting_stance

    By the way the stance came into being in the 60s as I recall and was popularized by Jeff Cooper. Because it revolutionized competitive shooting at the time other fellas adopted it and added elements like the isometric tension part and the "push/pull" element. None of which are necessary or really a part of it.

    tipoc
     
  9. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    I'll add this on the Weaver Stance...

    Quote from an interview with Weaver:

    And so I stay on topic, shooting one handed is a good thing.

    tipoc
     
  10. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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  11. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

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    Oh yea, and what is more just as there are different two handed stances there are different one handed ones.

    The Appliegate 'stance' for one handed shooting is different from the one handed stance in Massad Ayoob's Stressfire.

    And I assure you, one handed shooting is a valuable and necessary skill in gun fighting.

    Deaf
     
  12. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    In the paraphrase that Sam1911 posted, my use of the term Weaver wasn't in reference to the grip as Jack Weaver employed it...after all, it was with a revolver...but the the grip codified and popularized by Jeff Cooper and as still taught at Gunsite. The Col was magnanimous enough to name it after Jack Weaver, but there was never a question that it was taught the way Cooper believed it should work. Proof of that should be apparent when you look at how he taught the original Double Tap technique

    As currently taught at Gunsite, the push/pull isometric pressure in an integral part of the Weaver grip...perhaps a more accurate designator would be the Gunsite Weaver Grip Philosophy.

    Jack Weaver's gripping philosophy was indeed closer to that of the Modern Isosceles
     
  13. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I only shoot for fun, and use whatever grip/stance works for me.
     
  14. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I'd be very impresses by this ability also.

    I do a lot of one-handed shooting for both defensive and competition applications and at anything much beyond 5 yards I found shooting one-handed much slower...taking about half again as long to place two shots accurately on an 8" target (IDPA -0 zone). It wasn't the muzzle flip which caused the longer recovery time, but getting the sights back on target...the gun recoils away from pressure (the hand holding it) rather than straight up and down.

    I just attended a class and learned to move laterally, draw and fire 2 rounds into 4" @ 5 yards in .7 secs; trying it one-handed, I couldn't get under 1 sec. I was pretty impressed with myself until the instructor did a failure drill (2 CoM, 1 head) in the same time
     
  15. Schwing

    Schwing Member

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    My dad served in the military police during Vietnam. They trained exclusively one handed. He is to the age where he has a hard time even standing and is really shaky and he still shoots as well or better than I do with one hand.

    Having said that, I echo what others have said. You can get all of the opinions out there (and some folks will sell it as gospel). In the end, it comes down to what works best for you.
     
  16. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    One handed shooting should be practiced as it might be all that's available in certain situations, but do realize that the more modern handgunning form has developed as an improvement over older techniques.

    Looking at old handgun sights you can tell that they are almost non-existent, because for the most part they were intended for point-shooting.

    The more modern form of two-handed handgun shooting with a very heavy use of the sights has just proven itself more accurate and controllable. So its a legitimate practice techinque IMHO, but as a primary shooting style? Nah - not unless you're just going for nostaglia factor.
     
  17. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    9mm sez:

    That's correct and I agree. In an effort to replicate and standardize in formal instruction elements were added that were distractions in my opinion. But Cooper was introducing something new at the time and training large numbers often requires some rigidity and norms in how things are done. None the less what Weaver did and advocated was a bit different from what developed in his name.

    Partly true I think. Except that about 20 years ago when the Isosceles was introduced it was also quite a bit formal and staid, the balance even between both legs, a horse stance assumed, etc. The same error was introduced in efforts to standardize and train others a "proper Isoceles" was developed. In the last decade it has loosened up quite a bit and is closer to the relaxed stance that Weaver introduced.

    tipoc
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  18. gun addict

    gun addict Member

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    One handed shooting does have its merit in certain situations and should be practiced for those scenerios , such as if you've been shot on one arm or is in extrme close range and had to hold an attacker off with one arm, but other than that it has outlived its general usefulness as a defensive shooting stance. Today we understands the human body and mechanics involved in firing a pistol than people did 60 years ago, and naturally shooting stances changes using those understandings.

    Let's not forget also the wide use of body armor with military/police where the isosceles shooting stances would benefit the shooters. You would want your front SAPI plate facing the person you're in a firefight with instead of presenting him your side where the armor may be thinner or non-exsistent
     
  19. wolf695

    wolf695 Member

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    I love that pic, yes one handed is okay, but turn your body sideways as to minamize their target.
     
  20. wolf695

    wolf695 Member

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    I almost forgot, its about control & hitting your target!
     
  21. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    When I practice close up shooting I shoot one handed, when I practice with my LCP it's one handed, when I get out to 7yards or farther I practice both a mod weaver and one handed. I shoot all metal guns (except for the LCP) to me the Iso seems suited for plastic guns.
     
  22. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    :D

    There is some kernel of truth to that, you know. The Glock's grip angle was engineered to be especially beneficial to the Iso grip pattern. But it certainly is highly subjective.
     
  23. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Member

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    One handed does have a legitmate defensive use, that's a given, but to clarify, what I meant moreso was "Is it have a legitimate target shooting stance, or merely a relic of an earlier, more primitive time?"
     
  24. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, it is still required in several formal shooting disciplines, so I suppose the answer has to be yes.
     
  25. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    OK...

    The traditional bullseye stance ("legitimate target shooting stance") is still used today in formal target shooting as are the variations of the stance.

    The particular stance, derived from formal pistol dueling, was never really intended for combat, military or law enforcement use. It was used in training back in the day and likely at times now here and there.

    Was there something else you were trying to get at?

    tipoc
     
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