Is one-hand shooting a legitimate stance?

[Steve C]

Even into the time of semi-autos with 1911s, it seemed like it was common to shoot one-handed.

Time perspective of the young really amuses me. Up until the late 1960's a handgun was shot with one hand except for women and any man who shot 2 handed was under suspicion of being less than manly. You won't see pictures of the great pistol shooters like Skeeter Skelton, Jeff Cooper and others of those days using a 2 handed hold.

About that time I read an article by a respected shooter that proposed using 2 hands to shoot as he said the targets proved it increased scores. As it was slowly adopted in the 70's by police departments, driven by competition shooters using 2 hands in new games and matches sponsored by new organizations like IPSC founded in 1978. Two handed handgun shooting is now probably the predominately common way a handgun is shot.

I know several people who prefer to shoot with a one handed hold, many are much better with one hand than I am with two. I shoot in a Bullseye league and find no difficulty shooting one handed accurately. Two handed hold offers a bit quicker recovery under recoil.

The old man we knew as "Coach" who had a shooting box full of medals won over the years would remark that a pistol is called a "hand" gun, not a "hands" gun when asked about using a 2 handed hold.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Everybody should be able to shoot with one hand. Both hands are preferable, but there are circumstances where you don't have both available. At very close ranges, one-handed is faster.

 

[rcmodel]

I come from a long time ago NRA Bullseye competition & hunting background.

If you touched a gun with both hands while shooting a NRA Bullseye match, it was an automatic disqualification right there.

Now?
I still like the challenge of shooting with one hand in the old NRA Bullseye target stance.

It separates the men from the boy handgun shooters right quickly!

And in the off chance SD is involved?
You will often need your other hand to fiend off an attacker while going for your gun with the other hand.

Two-hand shooting is the way to win gun-games nowadays.

But it may not win your gunfight at green teeth & bad breath range in a dark street if you can't shoot with either hand.

rc

 

[beatledog7]

US Navy M9 qualification requires strong-hand only and weak-hand only rounds. I'm glad it does.

 

[Sam1911]

Shooting one handed never slowed me down

Wow. You must be one HECK of a talented shot!

... Either that or you're not challenging yourself with a timer.

 

[Sam1911]

Even into the time of semi-autos with 1911s, it seemed like it was common to shoot one-handed.

Time perspective of the young really amuses me. Up until the late 1960's a handgun was shot with one hand except for women and any man who shot 2 handed was under suspicion of being less than manly. You won't see pictures of the great pistol shooters like Skeeter Skelton, Jeff Cooper and others of those days using a 2 handed hold.

Yeah! What he said! It wasn't until some nameless jerk developed the "Modern Technique" that pansies started shooting with two hands ...uh... oh, wait...











Yup ... all those guys is less than manly, you can tell.

 

[JRH6856]

A few of the more famous ones are still around: Two Fingers Malloy, Thumbless Perkins and Midget Digit Jones......

You forgot "Lipless Larry" and "Earless Ernie" Gotta be careful what you hold those targets with.

 

[tipoc]

Paraphrasing, Weaver intends to push and pull in order to resist the recoil and hold the gun down on target.

Actually it doesn't. Jack Weaver, who developed the stance, said a few years ago he was a bit shocked when he heard the "push /pull" concept explained to him at a seminar where a speaker was discussing modern handgun shooting and the technique named after him. Weaver said he never came up with any such push/pull idea.

Weaver explained he just took a two hand hold for better stability and raised the gun up to where he could see the sights. He took a slight boxer stance and bent his knees for balance. That's it. No push/pull. No isometric tension. No particular stance except that it was balanced. No concept of it being a "stance" as in martial arts, that silliness came later. Simple.

You can see some of that interview here...

http://wn.com/the_real_weaver_shooting_stance

By the way the stance came into being in the 60s as I recall and was popularized by Jeff Cooper. Because it revolutionized competitive shooting at the time other fellas adopted it and added elements like the isometric tension part and the "push/pull" element. None of which are necessary or really a part of it.

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

I'll add this on the Weaver Stance...

Quote from an interview with Weaver:

'...I asked Jack if there are any misconceptions about the stance he'd like to clear up. "The idea it has to be done a certain way," he tells me, explaining that much of it is about "what's comfortable." I ask him to show me how it ought to be done, and, pistols in hand, we step outside into the back yard.

"Figure out where your target is," he tells me first. Standing next to him, I watch as he lines his feet up, the left a little forward of the right, and takes his two-handed grip on the pistol, with his left hand wrapped around the right, unlike the "teacup," and "wrist grab" holds used by some others. A man with large hands, Jack wraps the thumb of his left over the top of his right hand, just out of range of the K-38's hammer, then quickly cautions me not to do that with the .45 auto I'm holding.

"Your eye, the back sight, front sight, and the target don't have to be perfectly lined up," he says, bending his head down slightly and bringing the gun up to eye level, "but you can see the sights, and as you squeeze the trigger, you correct them as best you can. Pretty soon, you get to the point where you come pretty close every time."

I watch closely, and try to imitate his movements as he brings the gun up to eye level and strokes the trigger through, dry-firing. "If your feet don't feel right," he tells me, "you just pick them up." I ask him if I'm doing the Weaver Stance right, and he hands me his K-38, so I can try it with a revolver. He watches me bring the gun up, then tells me, "If you find something that works better for you, why, go for it."

And so I stay on topic, shooting one handed is a good thing.

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

One handed shooting...

"A man must learn to shoot quickly and instinctively"...

From 1944;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTJDq9KWyB8&list=PL0C7C6CCF1C0DEBB3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDU5mBd3hAY&list=PL0C7C6CCF1C0DEBB3

tipoc

 

[Deaf Smith]

Is one-hand shooting a legitimate stance?

Oh yea, and what is more just as there are different two handed stances there are different one handed ones.

The Appliegate 'stance' for one handed shooting is different from the one handed stance in Massad Ayoob's Stressfire.

And I assure you, one handed shooting is a valuable and necessary skill in gun fighting.

Deaf

 

[9mmepiphany]

Actually it doesn't. Jack Weaver, who developed the stance, said a few years ago he was a bit shocked when he heard the "push /pull" concept explained to him at a seminar where a speaker was discussing modern handgun shooting and the technique named after him. Weaver said he never came up with any such push/pull idea.

In the paraphrase that Sam1911 posted, my use of the term Weaver wasn't in reference to the grip as Jack Weaver employed it...after all, it was with a revolver...but the the grip codified and popularized by Jeff Cooper and as still taught at Gunsite. The Col was magnanimous enough to name it after Jack Weaver, but there was never a question that it was taught the way Cooper believed it should work. Proof of that should be apparent when you look at how he taught the original Double Tap technique

As currently taught at Gunsite, the push/pull isometric pressure in an integral part of the Weaver grip...perhaps a more accurate designator would be the Gunsite Weaver Grip Philosophy.

Jack Weaver's gripping philosophy was indeed closer to that of the Modern Isosceles

 

[rondog]

I only shoot for fun, and use whatever grip/stance works for me.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Shooting one handed never slowed me down, or made me miss something I was aiming at hitting.

I'd be very impresses by this ability also.

I do a lot of one-handed shooting for both defensive and competition applications and at anything much beyond 5 yards I found shooting one-handed much slower...taking about half again as long to place two shots accurately on an 8" target (IDPA -0 zone). It wasn't the muzzle flip which caused the longer recovery time, but getting the sights back on target...the gun recoils away from pressure (the hand holding it) rather than straight up and down.

I just attended a class and learned to move laterally, draw and fire 2 rounds into 4" @ 5 yards in .7 secs; trying it one-handed, I couldn't get under 1 sec. I was pretty impressed with myself until the instructor did a failure drill (2 CoM, 1 head) in the same time

 

[Schwing]

My dad served in the military police during Vietnam. They trained exclusively one handed. He is to the age where he has a hard time even standing and is really shaky and he still shoots as well or better than I do with one hand.

Having said that, I echo what others have said. You can get all of the opinions out there (and some folks will sell it as gospel). In the end, it comes down to what works best for you.

 

[mgmorden]

One handed shooting should be practiced as it might be all that's available in certain situations, but do realize that the more modern handgunning form has developed as an improvement over older techniques.

Looking at old handgun sights you can tell that they are almost non-existent, because for the most part they were intended for point-shooting.

The more modern form of two-handed handgun shooting with a very heavy use of the sights has just proven itself more accurate and controllable. So its a legitimate practice techinque IMHO, but as a primary shooting style? Nah - not unless you're just going for nostaglia factor.

 

[tipoc]

9mm sez:

As currently taught at Gunsite, the push/pull isometric pressure in an integral part of the Weaver grip...perhaps a more accurate designator would be the Gunsite Weaver Grip Philosophy.

That's correct and I agree. In an effort to replicate and standardize in formal instruction elements were added that were distractions in my opinion. But Cooper was introducing something new at the time and training large numbers often requires some rigidity and norms in how things are done. None the less what Weaver did and advocated was a bit different from what developed in his name.

Jack Weaver's gripping philosophy was indeed closer to that of the Modern Isosceles

Partly true I think. Except that about 20 years ago when the Isosceles was introduced it was also quite a bit formal and staid, the balance even between both legs, a horse stance assumed, etc. The same error was introduced in efforts to standardize and train others a "proper Isoceles" was developed. In the last decade it has loosened up quite a bit and is closer to the relaxed stance that Weaver introduced.

tipoc

 

[gun addict]

One handed shooting does have its merit in certain situations and should be practiced for those scenerios , such as if you've been shot on one arm or is in extrme close range and had to hold an attacker off with one arm, but other than that it has outlived its general usefulness as a defensive shooting stance. Today we understands the human body and mechanics involved in firing a pistol than people did 60 years ago, and naturally shooting stances changes using those understandings.

Let's not forget also the wide use of body armor with military/police where the isosceles shooting stances would benefit the shooters. You would want your front SAPI plate facing the person you're in a firefight with instead of presenting him your side where the armor may be thinner or non-exsistent

 

[wolf695]

I love that pic, yes one handed is okay, but turn your body sideways as to minamize their target.

 

[wolf695]

I almost forgot, its about control & hitting your target!

 

[huntsman]

When I practice close up shooting I shoot one handed, when I practice with my LCP it's one handed, when I get out to 7yards or farther I practice both a mod weaver and one handed. I shoot all metal guns (except for the LCP) to me the Iso seems suited for plastic guns.

 

[Sam1911]

to me the Iso seems suited for plastic guns.

There is some kernel of truth to that, you know. The Glock's grip angle was engineered to be especially beneficial to the Iso grip pattern. But it certainly is highly subjective.

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

One handed does have a legitmate defensive use, that's a given, but to clarify, what I meant moreso was "Is it have a legitimate target shooting stance, or merely a relic of an earlier, more primitive time?"

 

[Sam1911]

Well, it is still required in several formal shooting disciplines, so I suppose the answer has to be yes.

 

[tipoc]

OK...

but to clarify, what I meant moreso was "Is it have a legitimate target shooting stance, or merely a relic of an earlier, more primitive time?"

The traditional bullseye stance ("legitimate target shooting stance") is still used today in formal target shooting as are the variations of the stance.

The particular stance, derived from formal pistol dueling, was never really intended for combat, military or law enforcement use. It was used in training back in the day and likely at times now here and there.

Was there something else you were trying to get at?

tipoc