Is Open carry a Threat on you?

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I don't know about Michigan, but here in Kentucky, the visual recognition of a handgun on someone's hip ISN'T A THREAT. However, DRAWING & AIMING of a handgun in response to that visual recognition CERTAINLY IS a threat. This guy is well-ahead of his challengers for a Darwin Award - Voted "Most Likely to be Shot Dead".
 
To me any one I see with OC is not a threat & I would probably just glance & go about my business but if a person OC or CC decided to point the weapon at some one "especially me or my family" then my threat assesment would be greatly different..

In the hunt club there are quite a few of us that OC out there, no need to hide em & are easier to get ahold to if a yote or rabid dog comes at any of us.
 
Open carried for years in AZ before CCW became legal. I worked inside the law, wearing a vest over the rig, so the bottom of the holster, clearly visible AS a holster, hung out in plain view. Any cop would recognize it, but most sheeple, would not readily understand what it was, and thusly not panic, as some of our winter visitors may be wont to do, coming from restrictive states. So sorry, get a grip.
BTW, every single business that asked me to leave for open carry is out of business. Not that I really had anything to do with it, but it did happen. Especially loved the KFC that asked me to unload my sidearm before ordering. Before I had my "huh?" out, my wife was spinning around and exiting. She was OCing too!
 
...if he sees anyone with a gun out side of a Range, Open carry or something in that line, That he would draw his gun and disarm them because "He feels like it is a threat and if needed he would open fire".

Can he do that?

I just had to stop here.

That's felonious assault. At best, he'd be going to jail. At worst, the other guy would shoot him and be completely justified in doing so.

In reality, he's probably a range blow-hard and wouldn't do a darn thing.
 
Homeboy needs to get to the VA and get some counseling if he's talking about his time in Iraq and shooting people with holstered open carried weapons. Sounds like a real winner...
 
I've open carried before, in places where it was legal.

At such times, I and my companions went out of our way to be polite, tip extremely well, and be obviously outstanding citizens in general.

I was OC'ing in a restaurant in 2000 or so, when another customer, obviously upset that my group was carrying, complained to the waitress. The conversation couldn't be heard, but it was also obvious the waitress told her to mind her own damn business.

The waitress got a 50% tip. :)

If an unknown entity, in a public place, covers me with a firearm, I am going to feel my life is in danger. If that person orders me to disarm, I will feel an immediate threat.

If I think I'm going to die anyway, I'm going down fighting- I have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain.

(edit)I will say that my unit, when coming back from deployment to Afghanistan, was forced to watch some movies. One included propaganda that basically said "seek counseling if you feel the need to carry a gun". It didn't address whether that might have been one's normal custom before deployment- it was an obvious anti-gun bias.

John
 
He seriously said that? This must be a beyond tastefully late april fools day joke.
Even here in sunny florida if I saw a person with a firearm, (obviously not OC, it's not legal here) I would pretty much ignore them, provided they weren't aiming at me. (in which case there is only flight of chastise)
What's wrong with this guy?
He went on to talk about Iraq? This is America, not iraq. He must have been required to leave Iraq under the specification of "section 8"
What a dumbpoop.


I do have a question-

Are you allowed to OC in another legal state when you hail from a state where it is illegal?
 
First of all, your friend is either dangerously delusional or having fun pulling your leg. Maybe he has anger management issues and cannot express his disdain for open carry in a rational manner. At the risk of being flambeed, let's see if I can do any better.

In places where open carry is legal and relatively common, most would and should not bat an eye or feel threatened by someone in plain clothes walking around with a holstered gun in plain view. In areas where OC is not legal or common, we all walk past LEO's and armed security guards without a second thought - except like me, maybe a glance to check out what kind of gun is in the holster. So the problen is not the gun itself, as long as it is seen in a context that people accept as "normal", legitimate or justified.

I'll go out on a limb, however, and admit that in areas where a weapon is not necessarily a tool or feature of everyday life like farm, ranch, rural, snake, bear or mountain country, I just don't see the point of openly carrying a weapon OF ANY KIND when there is a good chance that it will ONLY serve to alarm or disturb most of the people around you even if they don't visibly freak out or audibly express their apprehension. That includes going to the cinema or a restaurant or shopping mall in an ordinary urban setting wearing a gun, large knife, bush machette, or even carrying a baseball bat. Why would anyone want to draw so much scrutiny and attention to themselves? What are you accomplishing that you can't do better (personal protection-wise) with a concealed weapon? If someone really needs a "LOOKITMEEE!!" fix, why not just jump up on a table, drop your pants and sing "Amazing Grace" at the top of your voice?

Two recent points that were expressed in favour of open carry are the feeling of confidence it brought and the activism approach of exercising your right to do so with the double benefit of sensitizing the sheeple to the sight of guns in the hands (or holsters) of ordinary citizens.

To the first, my reaction is that if someone needs to swagger around with a gun on his hip in a public, urban setting to feel confident, then there are other issues that require attention. It sounds more like a need for attention, respect and recognition more than anything else and begs one to wonder what they will do next when people don't openly react to the gun and they start feeling ignored or invisible again.

The activism point is far more understandable, given that all gun enthusiasts become at some point frustrated by the anti-gun mentality that a gun is an evil entity and it's mere presence in the hands of anyone but a policeman or a (friendly) soldier spells imminent doom to them and their families. So one decides to wear his gun openly and legally in areas where they know it might be perceived as unusual or out of place. "Exercising the Right", as they say.

In reality, all he is accomplishing is making the people around him uncomfortable and drawing attention to himself. Why? Because that is just the way society happens to be at this place and time. Much like a smoker who deliberately fires one up in an open place, but upwind of people he knows it's going to bother. To h-ll with them and their sheepish sensitivities!! I'm exercising my rights!

I am not saying that because that is the way things are we must simply accept it and make no attempt to influence change, but remember that real activism is a big job and walking around legaly making others uncomfortable is a far cry from the commitment to a high profile act civil disobedience combined with a rational, persuasive argument that polarizses supporters and influences a movement towards positive change. One is a self centered act of egotism and the other is a commitment of selfless dedication to a worthwhile cause.

I love guns and I always have, but I must admit that I don't think It's appropriate or necessary carry them around openly in quiet, public urban settings. What for?? :confused: I accept that this only my opinion and I in no way think it holds more validity than anyone else's. I also acccept the flames, but it would nicer to be persuaded by an argument that is simply better than mine.:)
 
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Would you (or anyone) hold your tongue and keep your opinions to yourself if it made others around you uncomfortable to hear what you had to say on a subject?

Should your second amendment rights be any less important than your first amendment rights?

* For example:
If I were to say something like "Tropical Buzz, your opinion of open carry makes me really uncomfortable, would you mind refraining from posting things like that in the future" Something like that would probably not sit well with you, and I really doubt you'd stop posting things like that just because I felt uncomfortable with what you had to say.
 
If what I had to say was declared offensive by a significant enough number of people, then, yes, I would be forced to at least examine my behavior to see if it is really out of line with what is acceptable here. As it is I am on a discussion board that invites on-topic debate without insults or offensive language, so I feel so far that my conduct is quite ok.

EDIT TO ADD:

Free speech rights are not unlimited or unrestricted. They are regulated by libel and slander laws as well as things like disturbing the peace and plain old decency, politeness and common sense.
 
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To the first, my reaction is that if someone needs to swagger around with a gun on his hip in a public, urban setting to feel confident, then there are other issues that require attention. It sounds more like a need for attention, respect and recognition more than anything else and begs one to wonder what they will do next when people don't openly react to the gun and they start feeling ignored or invisible again.
Judging by the above, you are from, born and raised, a location that does not allow open carry. If you had been, you would realize how insulting those statements are. When I open carry, I do not "swagger", nor did I do anything other than be on my best behavior, and usually well dressed, to avoid the impressions I made on others to reflect on the firearms owners as a whole. Yes, I actually did think that through... :)
There was no need for "respect" or "recognition" - I would rather NOT be recognized, but CCW was NOT an option at the time.
In reality, all he is accomplishing is making the people around him uncomfortable and drawing attention to himself.
No, I was carrying a tool. Nothing less, nothing more. Out here, it was recognized as such. In locations where OC is UNcommon, and statutes exist about "carrying to cause panic" or some such, then your residents may certainly call for help against a non-existant problem.
 
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No, I was carrying a tool. Nothing less, nothing more. Out here, it was recognized as such. In locations where OC is UNcommon, and statutes exist about "carrying to cause panic" or some such, then your residents may certainly call for help against a non-existant problem.

Agreed. I see open carry all the time here, and this is quite the urban setting and probably the most left-leaning city in an otherwise conservative state.

I OC and do not swagger- in fact, that would be counterproductive. The only way OC will work as a tool of activism is if we do it in such a way as to make it seem like the most normal thing in the world. If we swagger or worse yet, act self-conscious about LEGALLY exercising our 2A rights, then there's no point, all we are doing is perpetuating a stereotype about Rambo gun owners.

For the record, it's been at or around 90 degrees since Saturday here- OC is just downright more comfortable than CC, so add that to the list of "why open carry" questions that come up on a regular basis.
 
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BlazingAngel01
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What does your freind intend to do after he's disarmed the OCer?

I don't know after he said that, he started to talk about his time in Iraq.

Perhaps your friend experienced to many threats while in Iraq and needs to seek professional help to resolve those issues before he gets himself or someone else shot.
 
Tropical Buzz said:
…but it would nicer to be persuaded by an argument that is simply better than mine.

Your concealed firearm does nothing to prevent a violent crime, it can only be used as a reaction to a crime already committed. I carry openly because I would rather not have to draw, or worse, shoot someone.

A concealed weapon cannot help you if the bad guy gets the drop on you either. Are you seriously going to pull your concealed pistol while a mugger has a knife on you or your wife? Maybe you can while he’s leaving and shoot him in the back, but don’t count on prevailing in court if you shoot someone who is no longer a threat.

I know several people who carry openly in Seattle and Tacoma, large cities in anyone’s book, and none of them swaggers or carries for the nonsensical reasons you cited. We carry openly and are well behaved, friendly, and responsible citizens.

If you’re going to have an opinion, great, but please endeavor to have an informed opinion.
 
When I see someone open carrying (rare around here - the po-po picks you up, and you get charged with brandishing...), I look for a couple of things...

Does the person look like the boomstick belongs? Or are they wearing it as an extension of their personality?

Does the person look a little "off?" Aggressive, etc?

Is the person wearing a "tactical" holster, tactical rest of the stuff? I don't wanna be around a wannabee who might be deciding if this is the moment to go nutso...

Way I see it, you can can have a personal protection tool, or you can have a political statement. But the two rarely merge.
 
Judging by the above, you are from, born and raised, a location that does not allow open carry. If you had been, you would realize hoe insulting those statements are.

The "swagger" word was intended to illustrate the image of someone consciously and deliberately carrying openly in a setting in which OC is legal but uncommon and arguably inappropriate. I can see it being taken as an insulting generalization about all OC'ers and that was definitely not my intent. I stand corrected and I apologize.

Actually I grew up with guns and until 20 or so years ago gun ownership was largely relaxed and relatively un regulated. Since many people in the suburban and rural areas either lived or worked on relatively large sections of private land, guns carried openly were not uncommon at all, but only "out in the bush" as they say.

No, I was carrying a tool. Nothing less, nothing more.

Ok, so why a gun and not a cordless drill or a plunger? KIDDING...JUST KIDDING;)

Question; If you were OC'ing at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of the gun, would you continue to OC there next time you went?
 
bogie said:
Way I see it, you can can have a personal protection tool, or you can have a political statement. But the two rarely merge.

:confused:
I don't quite follow you there.

If I choose to carry the most convenient and effective personal protection tool I can manage (and I do); the political statement that "I believe in my natural right to defend myself to the best of my ability and with the best available tool, and do so unashamedly" seems to follow pretty naturally.

I can't really see how the tool compromises the statement, or the statement compromises the tool. They are very complementary.
 
Tropical Buzz said:
Question; If you were OC'ing at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of the gun, would you continue to OC there next time you went?

If you were eating at a restaurant where all the other patrons were a different ethnicity than yourself and your presence was clearly making some of the others nervous or uncomfortable, would you apply makeup to disguise your skin tone before you went back?
 
Question; If you were OC'ing at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of the gun, would you continue to OC there next time you went?

Question; If you were black at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of your skin, would you continue to show your skin there the next time you went?

What? There's a difference between your unalienable right to self defense, that you were born with, and the skin you were born with, that you should have to hide one and not the other? Convince me.

Ok, maybe you have trouble with that one. Let me make it easier for you.

Question; If you were Christian at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of your cross, would you continue to show your cross there the next time you went?
 
IMHO, me not doing something thats legal and my right just because I might offend someones delicate sensibilities is the most absurd thing I can think of.

I neither swagger nor do I picture myself as some sort of urban Rambo but I will OC as long as it is legal.

As much as I hate the word "Sheeple" it's hard not to have it come to mind when I encounter conformist attitudes.
 
Your concealed firearm does nothing to prevent a violent crime, it can only be used as a reaction to a crime already committed. I carry openly because I would rather not have to draw, or worse, shoot someone.

A concealed weapon cannot help you if the bad guy gets the drop on you either. Are you seriously going to pull your concealed pistol while a mugger has a knife on you or your wife? Maybe you can while he’s leaving and shoot him in the back, but don’t count on prevailing in court if you shoot someone who is no longer a threat.

If you live in or frequent a place where you seriously feel that you need to carry a gun openly to dissuade someone from attacking you, it may be wise consider a change of venue.

Are YOU seriously going to pull your UNCONCEALED PISTOL while a mugger who gets the drop on you has a knife on you or your wife??? Ruling out a ridiculously incompetent mugger and granted a slightly faster draw depending on your method of carry and your level of skill/training/practice, in the situation you describe where your situational awareness has already failed (overconfidence in your OC weapon?) and with the attacker in position to deliver an immediate strike - tell me what's the difference? A cool head and maybe your unarmed combat ability might well be more important than your gun in that scenario. I will agree that only a determined or irrational mugger (but... many of them are) would knowingly attack a visibly armed man.

If a criminal with a concealed weapon was casing the joint and saw you eating crab claws with your back to him and a gun on your hip, he has the advantage of knowing your hand and targeting you first while the un assuming looking CC'er at the next table might take him out when he makes his move. The elements of surprise and situational awareness are, to me, far more valuable in almost any scenario than standing out like a beacon and drawing unnecessary attention.

I repeat that my opinion only refers to places where OC may be legal but NOT common practice.

If you’re going to have an opinion, great, but please endeavor to have an informed opinion.

I'll always endevour to have an informed opinion even if it means my opinion being changed by someone with a better argument. Yours wasn't it.;)
 
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Originally Posted by Tropical Buzz
Question; If you were OC'ing at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of the gun, would you continue to OC there next time you went?

If you were eating at a restaurant where all the other patrons were a different ethnicity than yourself and your presence was clearly making some of the others nervous or uncomfortable, would you apply makeup to disguise your skin tone before you went back?

Quote:
Question; If you were OC'ing at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of the gun, would you continue to OC there next time you went?

Question; If you were black at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of your skin, would you continue to show your skin there the next time you went?

What? There's a difference between your unalienable right to self defense, that you were born with, and the skin you were born with, that you should have to hide one and not the other? Convince me.

Ok, maybe you have trouble with that one. Let me make it easier for you.

Question; If you were Christian at, say, a restaurant and it became obvious to you that there was no immediate threat to your safety but a lot of people were looking nervous or uncomfortable because of your cross, would you continue to show your cross there the next time you went?

LMAO! Good point, but a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. My ethnicity and skin colour (assuming your assumptions are correct) are things I cannot change as opposed to a deliberate and conscious behavior that I can choose to do or not depending among other things on the effect it has on others.

I have no trouble understanding you Wayne.

IMHO, me not doing something thats legal and my right just because I might offend someones delicate sensibilities is the most absurd thing I can think of.

There are no laws that I know of against breaking wind in an elevator:uhoh:, but I dont feel compelled to just because I can and I am inclined to avoid doing it if at all possible even though it is within my rights.
 
T Buzz, let me clue you in on something. First, I work with criminals 5 days a week. Criminals tend to be cowardly, unless in packs. I have seen MANY aggressive inmates, once removed from thier "backing" of thier buddies, deflate to something pea sized, sometimes blubbering like little kids. Some don't but many do. Criminals do not WANT thier tender pink skin punctured, so they run in packs, to minimize which one of them gets hurt slightly, while dealing major hurt to thier hapless victim. Even Chuck Norris had to have his TV enemies come at him one at a time...better filmography that way. ;)
So, criminals are less likely to attack someone who is open carrying AND in condition orange. If you are OC, and in white, you might as well leave it at home. You'll be telling the Responding Officer, (if you're alive), "I never saw him coming!" A mugger with a knife, who knows you have a gun, (he is losing to begin with), and he knows you see him - he's likely gone, looking for easier prey. Yes, it CAN happen that you will be targeted FOR the sidearm, but less likely.
As for the resteraunt analogy, it was three separate resteraunts I was asked to leave - all three franchises are out of business. If I am not welcome there armed, I am not welcome there period.
Lastly, how do I know there is no threat? Lubbys' in Texas was very peaceful, right before Suzanne Gratia-Hupp's parents were gunned down in front of her by a homicidal maniac...while her firearm rested comfortably 100 yards away.
 
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