Is the 4 inch 357 Magnum overrated???

[1911Tuner]

Energy

All this talk of X% more energy and Xfps more speed. Much ado about nothing, especially when discussing handgun velocity and energy levels. Bullet placement is the key. Velocity serves mainly to flatten trajectory. Even in rifles, if you need more power, what you likely need is more bullet, impact energy notwithstanding...and even at that, placement is the key. If you can't down an elk with an '06, you probably can't do it with a .338 magnum either.

 

[krept]

Going on what was touched on above, my understanding is that the lethality of the vaunted 125gr .357 Magnums revolved around their rapid energy dump to the point of fragmentation.

The 357SIG, on the other hand, was designed more for controlled expansion and penetration... especially as evident in the bullets where the jacket is bonded to the core like the Gold Dot.

So while the numbers on paper appear similar... and the weights should dictate a very close sectional density for each, this is a case where bullet construction should be looked at very closely.

 

[MCgunner]

Probably a lot like the comparison between the .30-06 Springfield and the .308 Winchester rounds. In the "standard" bullet weight range, the difference is pretty negligible. (150 and 165) The old '06 comes into its own with bullets of 180 grains and over.

Oh, boy, another caliber war within a caliber war... Awe, I won't jack the thread for this one...

 

[1911Tuner]

War!

MCGunner quipped:

>Oh, boy, another caliber war within a caliber war... Awe, I won't jack the thread for this one...<
*****************

Aw, hell...why not? Let's have us a flamefest over the .30-30 and the old .32 Winchester Special too, while we're at it.

I like the .32 Special...

 

[1911HOP]

if you got 2 arms & 2 legs carry them both they are both nice and work that way you dont have to take 2 asprins thinking about it just my 2 cents

 

[miko]

When .357 Sig becomes cheap and plentiful, I will consider buying a 357Sig barrel for my HK P2000 .40
If anything, I could reload using 9mm bullets and two dies instead of three...

But I will keep my 4 357 Mag. revolvers as well.

miko

 

[MCgunner]

Aw, hell...why not? Let's have us a flamefest over the .30-30 and the old .32 Winchester Special too, while we're at it.

I like the .32 Special...

ROFL.... Well, I agree about the .30-06/.308 thing of course. Any handloader can agree on that one, just that controlled expansion bullets like the Barnes X have somewhat elevated the .308 in the game you can pursue with it. I like short action rifles and there ain't nothin' I'll ever hunt I can't do with the .308 (or .30-06).

Now, the .32 special only exists as a way to bring your .30-30 back to life when you've shot out the barrel.

Bwaaaaa, ha, ha!

_______________________________________________

Now, back to the regular subject matter.......

 

[1911Tuner]

.32 Special

MCGunner said:

>Now, the .32 special only exists as a way to bring your .30-30 back to life when you've shot out the barrel.<
*********************

Not if'n ya shoot cast bullets in'em. 170s with a gas check at 2,000+ fps shoot as good or better than jacketed bullets...They're cheaper...and don't hurt the bores NONE.

They do a pretty conclusive number on Bambi too...

 

[Brian Williams]

So is a 38-55 for when you have shot out the rebored 30-30 in 32 spec????


The problem with 357sig is the bottleneck would cause setback and tie up even a good revolver, so I am all for a 357mag 4"...
Besides a bottle neck case would look weird with a 158 LSWC in it.

 

[lawboy]

The 4-inch 357 magnum is not over rated.
It has served more people in more capacities better than any other handgun platform I am aware of.
Law enforcement weapon.
Civilian weapon.
Hunting arm.
Home Defense weapon.
Target arm.
Plinking arm.
The power range of ammo it can use is HUGE.
Small woman hand shoot it. Large man can shoot it.
With grip changes, and proper selection of gun size (J, K, L, etc.),
small hand can handle it,
Large hand can handle it.
Sight options are legion.

When you consider all the ways that the 4-inch 357 makes a competent, main-caliber handgun accessible and usable to a huge cross section of people, it really is not possible to over estimate its value.

Regards to all.

 

[1911Tuner]

4-inch

Lawboy...Agreed. For a go anywhere/do anything general purpose sidearm, the mid-sized 4-inch .357 is tough to beat.

 

[brownie0486]

If I were limited to one handgun, and it had to be a revolver...the.357 Magnum would be it, hands-down, and if I had to choose a barrel length, it would be 4 inches.

Same here sir. I'll never give up or trade my 4 inch 357 revos.

Brownie

 

[1911Tuner]

.357

And I'm real partial to K-frame Smiths...fixed sights please...but the more I mess with the L-frames, the better I like.

'Course, I'm right fond of the M-58 too. A little big and heavy for concealed carry, but just right in good strong-side leather or a shoulder rig out in the boonies.

 

[brownie0486]

1911Tuner;

My K frame 65 is just the "perfect" 357 for me with the standard magna grips. It often goes afield with me on search and rescue ops in the Superstition Mtns here in Az. No adjustable sights to worry about bangin around, bull barrelled and as rugged as the mountains I travel in search of people needing help.

I should have never sold my model 13's which I had bought for the princely sum of 125.00 each back in the day.:banghead:

I'm fond of my N frame model 28 357 as well.

Brownie

 

[kmrcstintn]

I've been reading some posts that came after my original...

YIKES!!!

Guess I'm really outdated, outmoded, and one slow SOB...

Not only do I have a S&W 19 4" wheelie, my CCW and backup housegun is a mesely S&W 642 snubby. My next considerations involve a Ruger GP-100 6" wheelie and an Armscor M200 4" wheelie chambered in .38 special that is a licensed copy of older Colt revolvers made on Colt machinery in the Phillipines!

The only semiauto I have, a Beretta 9000S in 9mm is a nice piece and fun to shoot, but I am still more accurate and get more 'kill zone" hits with my wheelies...

Up until 2005, the Pennsylvania Game Commision duty weapons were 6 shot S&W 686 4" barrel revolvers for their payed officers and the voluntary deputies were authorized to carry any 4" barrel revolvers in .357 magnum; last year they just made the switch to Glock sidearms in .357 Sig chambering and I' not sure if the entire force has made the transition yet...

 

[Hook686]

November 20th, 2006 03:42 PM


Cousin Mike

I looked all this stuff up, just for you guys. Personally I resent having to do homework to prove my point (lol... ) but hell, who am I kidding? I didn't have anything else better to do, and I figured maybe if I go ahead and get all this stuff down, I'll have a nice little file saved for whenever I see the .357 Sig vs. [insert caliber here] threads.

...


That’s about all I was willing to look up at the moment, but I’ve learned a little bit looking all this stuff up… What I’ve learned is that there really doesn’t seem to be a huge difference between the 2 loads in any SD/carry application you’re likely to be carrying. That, and .357 Sig doesn’t get the respect it would seem it deserves.

Yup limiting your search sure supports your position. You over looked Buffalo Bore ammunition. The 125 grain JHC has 1700 fps, giving 802 ft-lbs in a 6" revolver, and about 750 ft-lbs, at 1603 fps, in the 4" barreled revolver.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

Personally I think, that the difference between 1600-1700 fps compared, with 1200-1400 fps 125 grain rounds you listed, to be pretty significant.

I agree that the standard service calibers, 9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and .45 acp, are pretty much equal, from a terminal balistics stand point (see: http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000581#000002 )


However I do not think that equality extends to the .357 magnum, .41 magnum, or .44 magnum.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Yup limiting your search sure supports your position.

LOL... Sweet. Like I just did that on purpose to make the .357 Magnum look inferior to the .357 Sig. You caught me, I give up. The reason I left Buffalo Bore ammunition out of my search is because it had already been covered earlier in the thread. So was Doubletap ammunition, which also smokes the Sig round. Or did you not read the whole thread before you jumped on me?

Also, you're citing one of the hottest loads available like it's an average.

I left a lot of different brands of ammo out - I put 2 hours of my life into answering a question because I was happy to do it - not because I'm obligated to. If you want to look up the figures from more ammo companies, I'd love to see them. The numbers I posted are available for you to look up as well. I did a quick search of some common carry ammo. Whats up with accusing me of doctoring the results? Kinda silly, don't you think?

Like I said, I own guns chambered in both calibers. I like both rounds - I prefer the Magnum at the range, and for everything else... but for the guns I have, at the moment, I prefer the Sig round for carry.

I just think it's funny how people will do or say anything and everything to take away from the performance of the .357 Sig. Including downplay it's average numbers, and compare that BS average (quite a few of those Sig rounds broke 1500 fps, and one broke 1600) to the hottest .357 Magnum load there is, and then say.

".357Sig can't come close."

I never said .357Sig was better. We all know that .357 Magnum can do things the Sig round can't, and I've acknowledged that. People asked for figures, and I looked them up. I was a little surprised by the information I found. No one else seemed bothered by it. What's up, you got stock in .357 Magnum or somethin'?

 

[jonsidneyb]

I am kind of perplexed at all of this.

It might just be me but I see advantages to the Revolver and I see advantages to the Automatic.

The revolver can truely do somethings better than the automatic and the automatic can truely do somethings better than the revolver.

I guess the question is is it overrated but that is not how much of the discussion goes.

If you mean are some ballistics tables rating the load a bit faster than it it in many guns for factory ammo. That seems possible or it could be the variance between gun. If that is what is meant...perhaps possible.

I myself do not think the .357 magnum is overrated as for usefulness. In what I think are usable sized guns I think it does all that can be expected of a cartridge in this class and is very versitile. I almost think this is a Auto VS Revolver discussion.

I kind both the Auto and Revolver have a place in this world. I think it is silly when people say one or the other is not good. They both are good, they just have different stengths and weaknesses.