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Is the Catholic Church calling for Gun Control?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Alan Fud, Jan 14, 2006.

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  1. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=93435 ...
     
  2. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    what will Bill O'Rielly do?
    he's promised to get a gun.

    AFS
     
  3. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    The Institutional Roman Catholic Church has been solidly in the hands of the one worlders since Vatican II.
     
  4. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    That first number seems awfully low ... I would guess there are 200-300 million guns in private hands in the US alone. So the US has a third to half of all the guns in the world, but only accounts (outside of foreign wars) for ~15% (30K out of 200K) of homicides and suicides (can anyone say: "more guns, less crime" ???).
     
  5. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    To take this in a socio-political rather than religious direction, how would a declaration by the vatican that civilian firearms ownership is sinful affect the political scene in america? Would this represent a major change from the current balance of power?

    Much of the catholic NE is already staunchly anti-gun. NJ, MA and NY contain large populations of catholics and are largely disarmed already. Are there any heavily catholic areas that are pro gun?

    My main worry would be that it might spark an exodus of religious conservatives to the anti-gun democratic party (unlikely) or make the republicans more friendly to gun control (actually likely if the religious conservatives were strongly enough for it).
     
  6. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    The previous Pope was firmly AGAINST gun control and said so to the UN ...
     
  7. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

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    big difference in positions

    the conference to regulate international arms deals may be a good thing, for example, to prevent the PRC from selling M-16 clones to Iran.

    The conference on regulating civilian possession is something else - a non-starter as far as I (and the Catholic Church, it seems) am concerned . . .
     
  8. vrwc

    vrwc Member

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    From the The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    "Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm
     
  9. vrwc

    vrwc Member

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  10. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Note the word illicit. In other words, the treaty they are talking about deals with the already illegal trafficking of arms.

    They are not referring to private firearm ownership. The Catholic Church has a well documented record of being pro-self defense.
     
  11. captain obvious

    captain obvious Member

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    Why would that exactly be a bad thing? Better they use those than G3s :D
     
  12. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    The Catholic church has been pretty solidly pro RKBA, as the above documents attest.

    Hopefully, Pope Palpatine isn't going to pull a Zeuropean about face on that topic.

    But hey, they're running out of popes, anyway, according the Prophecy of St. Malachy.
     
  13. Thain

    Thain Member

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    The Catholic Church (and this Catholic) are firmly in favor of legal, responsible, gun ownership... but also in favor of restrictions on international arms traffic.

    Not the same issue.
     
  14. Mizzle187

    Mizzle187 Member

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    Very interesting! Thanks for that link!
     
  15. Robert J McElwain

    Robert J McElwain Member

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    Gun control belongs in the same league with Prohibition. The only effect is to move the manufacture underground into the hands of criminals. And, of course, in a large part of the world, only the criminals are allowed to have guns.

    What's that quote I've seen?
    "The difference between a Socialist and a Communist (or any other form of dictatorship) is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet."

    Bob
     
  16. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    Authoritarianism, of all kinds, and gun control are kissin' cousins. RKBA is about bottom-up power; centralized monolithic institutions about top-down power. No surprise here.
     
  17. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    Well I, for one, am doing my part in taking as many guns "off the street" as possible.




    by putting them in my safes. :D
     
  18. pax

    pax Member

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    So far, this is an excellent example of a thread with a topic right on the line, but which has stayed on the right side of the forum rules. No bashing or proselytizing, just good discussion of the church's teaching as it directly applies to the RKBA.

    Keep up the good work, folks.

    pax
     
  19. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    Actually, most of that link reads pretty anti-civilian-ownership:


     
  20. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    Interesting how they failed to mention the fact that most small arms related deaths that have happened in the 20th Century were from small arms possessed by governments that denied those same arms to their civilian population by law, i.e., they were government small arms that killed unarmed civilians who agreed to allow their government to take their arms away before their governments murdered them. If anything, wide disbursal of small arms in the hands of any people prevents mass murders by governments, and since most murders committed in the 20th Century were perpetrated by governments, this will also diminish the total number of murders. The UN, and the Catholic Church, therefore, should be advocating a wide disbursment of small arms among civilian populations to preven more Rwawanda-style, government perpetrated, mass murders and genocides.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2006
  21. oldfart

    oldfart Member

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    As several here have mentioned, this is about illicit and illegal arms and arms trade. At first blush, few would have any objection to such a ban. As people who are sworn enemies to gun control though, we should be able to recognize the sandy nose of that particular camel. How many times have we seen similar "good and reasonable" legislation pushed through state and federal legislatures only to see it used in ways we never imagined?
    I am against ALL gun control. The only way I would deny anyone a gun is if I were then prepared to guarantee his/her safety. That goes for kids, old women, convicted criminals who have been released from prison and aliens.
    It should be noted that I'm also against the U.N.:banghead:
     
  22. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    What too many fail to understand is that, quite literally, the UN definition of "illicit small arms" is those small arms not in government hands. I am not exaggerating about that. That really is their definition. All privately owned firearms are illicit small arms according to the United Nations.
     
  23. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    Two words: Warsaw Ghetto . . . . .

    As far as the Church goes, I thought they supported the God given right of self defense . . . . . . but if they go the other way, I'd imagine folks would listen as well as they do for issues like birth control.
     
  24. Big Mike

    Big Mike Member

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    I'm Catholic and I carry concealed when I go to church every sunday. I'm not the only one either. Mike
     
  25. cosine

    cosine Member

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    They do.

    They cannot.
     
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