Is the Catholic Church calling for Gun Control?

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Alan Fud

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http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=93435 ...
The Holy See appealed to the international community to prepare and adopt a treaty to regulate the trade of small arms and light weapons. The Vatican believes that such a measure will also contribute to combat terrorism. The appeal was made Monday by Archbishop Celestino Migliore, the Holy See's permanent observer to the United Nations, when addressing a session of a U.N. preparatory committee. ...

Referring to the upcoming U.S. conference, the archbishop said that it would "be most useful to start a serious reflection on the possibility of negotiating a legally binding instrument on international arms trade, such as an arms trade treaty, based on the more important principles of international law, and in particular on both human rights and humanitarian law." "Such an instrument," the papal representative said, "could greatly contribute to uprooting the illicit traffic in arms and to underlining the responsibility of states to strengthen further the international regime on small arms and light weapons."

The United Nations estimated that there are more than 600 million small arms and light weapons in circulation worldwide. Of 49 major conflicts in the 1990s, 47 were waged with small arms as the weapons of choice. Small arms are responsible for over half a million deaths per year, including 300,000 in armed conflict and 200,000 more from homicides and suicides.

Archbishop Migliore observed: "If we consider both the humanitarian costs of the small arms and light weapons and the profound connection between them, and the process of human and sustainable development, then it becomes clear that greater attention now needs to be paid to reducing the demand for small arms and light weapons." ..Earlier Monday, in his address to the diplomatic corps accredited to the Holy See, Benedict XVI affirmed: "On the basis of available statistical data, it can be said that less than half of the immense sums spent worldwide on armaments would be more than sufficient to liberate the immense masses of the poor from destitution. This challenges humanity's conscience."
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The United Nations estimated that there are more than 600 million small arms and light weapons in circulation worldwide. Of 49 major conflicts in the 1990s, 47 were waged with small arms as the weapons of choice. Small arms are responsible for over half a million deaths per year, including 300,000 in armed conflict and 200,000 more from homicides and suicides.
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That first number seems awfully low ... I would guess there are 200-300 million guns in private hands in the US alone. So the US has a third to half of all the guns in the world, but only accounts (outside of foreign wars) for ~15% (30K out of 200K) of homicides and suicides (can anyone say: "more guns, less crime" ???).
 
To take this in a socio-political rather than religious direction, how would a declaration by the vatican that civilian firearms ownership is sinful affect the political scene in america? Would this represent a major change from the current balance of power?

Much of the catholic NE is already staunchly anti-gun. NJ, MA and NY contain large populations of catholics and are largely disarmed already. Are there any heavily catholic areas that are pro gun?

My main worry would be that it might spark an exodus of religious conservatives to the anti-gun democratic party (unlikely) or make the republicans more friendly to gun control (actually likely if the religious conservatives were strongly enough for it).
 
The Real Hawkeye said:
The Institutional Roman Catholic Church has been solidly in the hands of the one worlders since Vatican II.
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The previous Pope was firmly AGAINST gun control and said so to the UN ...
In a world marked by evil, the right of legitimate defence by means of arms exists. This right can become a serious duty for those who are responsible for the lives of others, for the common good of the family or of the civil community. This right ALONE can justify the possession of arms.
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big difference in positions

the conference to regulate international arms deals may be a good thing, for example, to prevent the PRC from selling M-16 clones to Iran.

The conference on regulating civilian possession is something else - a non-starter as far as I (and the Catholic Church, it seems) am concerned . . .
 
From the The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm
 
Such an instrument," the papal representative said, "could greatly contribute to uprooting the illicit traffic in arms and to underlining the responsibility of states to strengthen further the international regime on small arms and light weapons."
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Note the word illicit. In other words, the treaty they are talking about deals with the already illegal trafficking of arms.

They are not referring to private firearm ownership. The Catholic Church has a well documented record of being pro-self defense.
 
The Catholic church has been pretty solidly pro RKBA, as the above documents attest.

Hopefully, Pope Palpatine isn't going to pull a Zeuropean about face on that topic.

But hey, they're running out of popes, anyway, according the Prophecy of St. Malachy.
 
The Catholic Church (and this Catholic) are firmly in favor of legal, responsible, gun ownership... but also in favor of restrictions on international arms traffic.

Not the same issue.
 
Gun control belongs in the same league with Prohibition. The only effect is to move the manufacture underground into the hands of criminals. And, of course, in a large part of the world, only the criminals are allowed to have guns.

What's that quote I've seen?
"The difference between a Socialist and a Communist (or any other form of dictatorship) is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet."

Bob
 
So far, this is an excellent example of a thread with a topic right on the line, but which has stayed on the right side of the forum rules. No bashing or proselytizing, just good discussion of the church's teaching as it directly applies to the RKBA.

THR's Code of Conduct said:
We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line".
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Keep up the good work, folks.

pax
 
Actually, most of that link reads pretty anti-civilian-ownership:


Such an approach is also directed against the culture of violence fed by, among other things, the illicit trade of small arms and light weapons, which sometimes could be wrongly recognised as one of the more effective instruments to solve the conflicts of daily life.

The ultimate goal uniting us in this area is the protection of the life and dignity of each and every human person. For this reason, it seems appropriate to ensure, even in this process, the centrality of the human person, and therefore to emphasize the importance of considering the human dimension in facing the problem of illicit trade in arms. It is well known that civil populations suffer the most tragic consequences from the use of light weapons and small arms; the majority of the victims of these arms are civilians, most of which are women and children.
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The United Nations estimated that there are more than 600 million small arms and light weapons in circulation worldwide. Of 49 major conflicts in the 1990s, 47 were waged with small arms as the weapons of choice. Small arms are responsible for over half a million deaths per year, including 300,000 in armed conflict and 200,000 more from homicides and suicides.
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Interesting how they failed to mention the fact that most small arms related deaths that have happened in the 20th Century were from small arms possessed by governments that denied those same arms to their civilian population by law, i.e., they were government small arms that killed unarmed civilians who agreed to allow their government to take their arms away before their governments murdered them. If anything, wide disbursal of small arms in the hands of any people prevents mass murders by governments, and since most murders committed in the 20th Century were perpetrated by governments, this will also diminish the total number of murders. The UN, and the Catholic Church, therefore, should be advocating a wide disbursment of small arms among civilian populations to preven more Rwawanda-style, government perpetrated, mass murders and genocides.
 
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As several here have mentioned, this is about illicit and illegal arms and arms trade. At first blush, few would have any objection to such a ban. As people who are sworn enemies to gun control though, we should be able to recognize the sandy nose of that particular camel. How many times have we seen similar "good and reasonable" legislation pushed through state and federal legislatures only to see it used in ways we never imagined?
I am against ALL gun control. The only way I would deny anyone a gun is if I were then prepared to guarantee his/her safety. That goes for kids, old women, convicted criminals who have been released from prison and aliens.
It should be noted that I'm also against the U.N.:banghead:
 
oldfart said:
As several here have mentioned, this is about illicit and illegal arms and arms trade. At first blush, few would have any objection to such a ban. As people who are sworn enemies to gun control though, we should be able to recognize the sandy nose of that particular camel. How many times have we seen similar "good and reasonable" legislation pushed through state and federal legislatures only to see it used in ways we never imagined?
I am against ALL gun control. The only way I would deny anyone a gun is if I were then prepared to guarantee his/her safety. That goes for kids, old women, convicted criminals who have been released from prison and aliens.
It should be noted that I'm also against the U.N.:banghead:
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What too many fail to understand is that, quite literally, the UN definition of "illicit small arms" is those small arms not in government hands. I am not exaggerating about that. That really is their definition. All privately owned firearms are illicit small arms according to the United Nations.
 
The previous Pope was firmly AGAINST gun control and said so to the UN
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Two words: Warsaw Ghetto . . . . .

As far as the Church goes, I thought they supported the God given right of self defense . . . . . . but if they go the other way, I'd imagine folks would listen as well as they do for issues like birth control.
 
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