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Is there a market for a MULTI-SHOT BP RIFLE?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by piettakid, May 6, 2016.

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  1. piettakid

    piettakid Member

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    We all know about the 1858 New Army carbine which is just a revolver with an 18" barrel and a rifle stock added. It still shoots handgun loads. But suppose it had a 3" long cylinder with 5 chambers of 50 caliber. With 150 grains of pyro in each chamber, it would be plenty powerful for deer and the possibility of quick followup shots means you could safely hunt dangerous game like bear.
     
  2. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds interesting, but for obvious reasons I hope they don't put on a forearm.

    I wonder about a three shot .58 cal minie gun instead?
     
  3. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Seems most do well with half of that powder charge.

    The .38-55 made quite a name for itself as did the .44-40... And we aren't even talking about the .45-70.
     
  4. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    Why? The 44 Remington or the 44 Colts have plenty of power for deer.
     
  5. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

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    Double rifle may be the way to go. However, they are expensive to make and to get to shoot to the same POA.

    That said, I think follow up shots are not that common and with the smoke/recoil, spooked animal, even harder to make.
     
  6. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Didn't Century of some such back in the late 60's sell a swivel barrel two shot flint lock?

    -kBob
     
  7. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    What a lot of people don't know is that two-shot blackpowder rifles and muskets were fairly common during the early 19th century. Not everybody had just one shot. I sure wish some of the Italian makers would make a replica of one. These are covered well in The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned H. Roberts.
     
  8. Browning Guy

    Browning Guy Member

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    Or for simplicity sake why not copy an original idea that has been around for a good amount of time. Check out Jonathon Browning's (John Moses Browning's dad) "harmonica" rifle. It was usually offered in 5 shot but could be varied to the customers request, and was simplicity itself to operate. It was also offered with another bar chamber so in effect you carried 10 rounds pre-loaded and ready to fire by simply swapping bars.

    http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/65/lid/1135

    Pretty cool idea.
     
  9. swathdiver

    swathdiver Member

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    A Ruger Old Army or its equivalent with Kaido Conicals can take bear and anything else one might run up against in North America's woods.

    Might one of Colt's revolving shotguns or rifles pique your interest?
     
  10. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Mike Belivew (duelisy1954) has construction videos of building a flinter with 2 barrels that rotate and use one lock.
    But you can't use multi shot guns for muzzle loader hunting.
     
  11. Blackpowdershooter44

    Blackpowdershooter44 Member

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    You can't legally hunt with a 1866 revolving carbine?
     
  12. piettakid

    piettakid Member

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    I never heard that. Bet the law varies by state. Are you saying no state will let you hunt with the 1858 New Army Carbine?
     
  13. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    It wouldn't work here in TX during the muzzleloader season as it doesn't load from the muzzle. I asked about using my ROA. It can be used during the regular season.
     
  14. LonesomePigeon

    LonesomePigeon Member

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    How about a Colt Walker with a shoulder stock?
     
  15. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    hrmm....i think if i had the choice, i would opt for a double barrel rifle.....but instead of a side by side......i would make it an over/ under.......i think that would be pretty neat.
     
  16. alexander45

    alexander45 Member

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    A harmonica rifle remake would be cool but expensive
     
  17. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Harmonicas would be nice, but gas sealing is still an issue. Unlike revolvers and revolving rifles (there is a 'Colt Root rifle at the Thunderbird Museum), I've never heard of a chainfire on a Harmonica (though it is possible).
     
  18. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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  19. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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  20. Ironhand54

    Ironhand54 Member

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  21. DD4lifeusmc

    DD4lifeusmc Member

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    you need to check the laws in your own state as to what is legal or not.
    Also any state you plan to hunt in as they are not all the same.
    many state it must be a muzzle loader.
    Any BP revolver would not meet that condition.

    some specify a minimum caliber and or a minimum amount of powder.

    Also some states don't have a separate BP season

    As to using kaidos 250gr in a ROA for bear, I won't say it can't be done,
    But you'd be foolish, especially if it is a grizzly or a Alaskan Brown.

    You better have a heavy caliber backup rifle with you.
    I've seen griz take two well placed shots and pretty much shrug them off for several minutes and still charge.
     
  22. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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  23. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    Isn't the idea of muzzle loading season to give the animals a chance by limiting the hunter to one shot only?

    If I missed something then perhaps there's a market out there for a reproduction of the Colt 1855 revolving cylinder rifle?
     
  24. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Gary,

    The Browning Harmonica rifles featured a system of caming the chamber block forward over the back of the barrel, much like a Russian 1895 Nagant revolver. Fess Parker fired one in a film about JMB's history and I believe he fired it with his support arm forward as with a standard rifle rather than behind the face of the barrel.

    John Browning appearently though that the three shot block offered the best option for a hunter but built five and seven shot "Harmonicas" for those that wanted them and even a 21 shot model for use from a fixed position.

    Other than some folks ruminating I can find no definitive reference that "The Mormon Battalion" that marched off to Mexico (too late) carried any of these rifles. My understanding is that when his family said he did not make rifles after arriving in Ogden that this meant he did not design new rifles. I have seen references to him making a copy of the Walker pistol (which he did not like doing as he thought the Harmonica type easier to make) and under hammer guns after arriving in Ogden.

    I think John Browning's biggest contribution to firearms history though was when young JMB said at the supper table one night after a frustrating day trying to repair some single shot that "I could make a better gun than THIS!" then his father John said "I wish you would, son" and firearms history changed.

    -kBob
     
  25. kBob

    kBob Member

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    So from the BP section of the 1975 Guns Illustrated I found three turn barrel rifles.

    Esopus TB-1 percussion .45 cal two barrels on swivel, single, each barrel has its own sights lock $139.95

    Hopkins and Allen Turnbarrel o/u percussion 45 cal two barrels on swivel, single, each barrel has its own sights lock $139.95

    These do not appear to be the same rifle but close in lay out, different lock plate and cap box in stocks , different trigger guards, and Esopus has sort of a fore stock.

    Dixie Flint Swivel Breech Rifle .45 On this the barrels each have their own pan and frizzen in addition to sights and the barrels are "Paneled" like the Esopus to provide a scant fore stock. Very nice stock in the add with embellished rectangular patch box.....a mere $450 in 1975 (ow! buddy's Mauser action , scoped BSA cost only about $200 that year)

    Also available as a percussion gun at an amazing savings at only $325 in 1975.....about what a PFC took home a month in 1975.

    I will say that Tim Murphy would likely have been happy with the looks of the Dixie rifle in his tree at Saratoga.

    I have yet to find the model flinter I still seem to recall was offered by Century though it looked much like the H&A percussion gun and I suspect was made by the same folks.

    I believe it appeared in their "Restore your tired old rolling block" adds for years.

    I can not recall ever having handled any of these swivel breech or turn barrel guns though they always fascinated me since reading of Murphy as a "ute"

    -kBob
     
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